Sustainable BC

[MikeK]

Well think what you will guys, but did you read the original article? Did you look at the proposal from APSA?

Everybody wants a 'trail-less' wilderness in which they can do whatever the frig they want, like hand trim trees and maintain old logging roads. Maybe if you read the proposal you'd see it was nothing more than that.

And if you truly want to go into a trail-less wilderness that has seen the real effects of nature and very little from man in the last 40 years, I'll take you to one. I'm not sure you'll like the skiing though... I hope you like blowdown and spruce groves!

[Teleman]

We ski HARDWOODS....not the White Mountains of New Hampshire and Northeast Vermont....Way Northeast!....Way back used to cruise Round Mountain a fairly gentle shot that dropped about a thousand down To Hardwick Vermont....BTE....before the tele era!!!!! One year back in the 70's we entered a giant blowdown....Straight line or Tornado, don't know....Total sweatballs....horror show.....You really DON'T have to bring us to such a place.....Since my equipment does not allow for video's.....just responding to writing so if your saying a clip here or there that's all well and good....Cutting trails is a no-no.....Since we have explored lots of areas in Northern Vermont we now have some forest that is pretty wide open for naturally gladed runs of tree skiing fun....No clipping of any kind required....Anywhere from 1000 to 1600 feet of bliss...TM

[Teleman]

Oooops that's Round Knoll....Round Mountain is another good Hardwood area with good potential for Moose and some decent hardwood arcing...TM

[connyro]

I see your point MikeK. Where I ski up here, we've got a ton of wilderness in all directions. I will clean slopes near our camp, but the vast majority of our ski spots are not trimmed or cleaned in any way. It's nice to have the nearby slopes clean for easy access, night skiing, beginners, etc but the real fun is heading out to parts unknown and finding new spots to hit. We've got mainly hardwood forest here, so it's not usually too thick with blowdowns or anything. The snow tends to really pile up around here too, so most debris and blowdowns are buried under the snow cover. The beech/maple whips are the main problem. It's different in every region I'm sure, but around here I prefer relatively untouched forest for skiing. Here's a couple photos from the top of what we call 'the far bowl'. There's been no pruning or cleaning, and with enough snow, this spot almost skis like a glade.

farbowl1.jpg

farbowl2.jpg

[MikeK]

Some of the issue in NY is our weather... we don't get as much snow as you guys do, so it takes a lot more to cover the big stuff. Also, in some areas, we have more of a mixed Boreal type forest. There's plenty of Hardwoods, and there's plenty of trails to get to said Hardwoods. Some are a mess, some are pretty open. I can definitely see why some people want to keep them clean. Some of the best or accessible terrain isn't always the cleanest for skiing.

Also schlubs like me like skiing on trails.

And actually I have access to my own, private 400' hardwood ridge which has a few logging trails and could be cleaned up for nice glade skiing. I don't bother because it doesn't get enough snow and I'd get bored with it quickly... it's probably only 30 acres on that ridge.

I like to go new places... explore... see new stuff, even if it's only a slight variation of the same kinda stuff.

[connyro]

There's also the issue of over-pruning the next generation of saplings when clearing woods for skiing. Obviously clearing the deadfall and blowdowns doesn't cause much problem, but pruning all the saplings and whips from an area will alter the forest makeup long-term, compromising the health, diversity, and potential commercial value of a stand.

[MikeK]

Yeah... true.

If it were my land, I'd keep some sapling and cut some older, less healthy trees and use them for firewood.

In the Adirondacks, on the forest preserve, that's completely taboo (illegal really). Even cutting saplings is illegal, but the proposals for 'Open Woods' skiing are to remove some of these smaller diameter 'whips'.

And actually I've even questioned how removing dead and downed wood affects the ecosystem. Fishers, for example, use dead logs for their dens. That material is decomposed by fungi and eventually makes it's way back into the organic soil, which replenishes nutrients for the living trees.

There really is no such thing as 'no trace' by humans. Everything we do affects the environment, and we are part of it. The problems seem to arise when we have large numbers of small impacts or generally large impacts. Very small instances of tree harvesting, removing dead and downed wood, hunting, etc seem to keep the ecosystem in a very healthy state (at least to what we think of as healthy). It's a balance just like anything else.