Interesting. I forgot all about that... good thing it was written down.
Al's advice might not be a bad idea. Either that or stick with those Brown ones I linked from last year if you feel comfortable with a 199.
I can tell you a S Bound 98 in a 189 is really nice all around ski.
Advice on new skis
Re: Advice on new skis
A lot of good advice all around, thanks. I just about had it figured out with the 78s until I read about the added camber. I don't think 199s will be a good match for me.
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MikeK
Re: Advice on new skis
This is a good deal:
http://nextadventure.net/fischer-s-boun ... AvHo8P8HAQ
189 won't feel too long for you. I have these same skis. It's not the easy skin, but as we were discussing, the scales work so well the easy skin isn't 100% necessary. I'm guessing where that skin would really shine is in hardpack/ice where the scales can't get any purchase.
I'll be quite honest, I test all my skis touring on the same relatively flat circuit and then on a small hill (I ski other places but this gives me some A to B comp). These are by far the slowest skis I own. You don't really notice it while skiing them, but the times don't lie. I can do the same 4 miles a half hour quicker on my e89s (no joke). And I'm less tired. OTOH, the small hill I test on I can barely make two turns with the e89s - I can crank out 4 to 6 tight radius turns with the S 98s.
I'm not out for speed, but the added glide does make touring more fun. Some people think these a bit squirrelly too, especially on harder snow. They really excel for breaking trail in deep snow, and going up and down hills. If you have rugged terrain, you won't regret a ski like this. You'll more than make up the effort in the climbing and descending.
No idea what your budget is, but you honestly could pick up a pair of Glittertinds and a pair of S 98s for a decent price now.
http://www.skirack.com/browse.cfm/madsh ... AiGX8P8HAQ
For a quiver of two, it's not a bad setup. Throw pins on both and you can use the same boots with each, they'll be fine. Thing is, this gives you a good spread of equipment, the Glittertind is more like a track XC ski and the S Bound is more like a(n) (older) downhill ski. Really it's the camber profile and the sidecut that makes them really different skis.
I wouldn't be disappointed with those two skis to play with.
If you could afford a little more, I'd go with the e99 over the Glittertind:
http://www.backcountry.com/fischer-e99- ... lsrc=aw.ds
A few posters here have complained about the xtralite air channels, and I can't speak to this current model - my wife had a set from about 5 years back that were really nice. Light, stiff, fast.
My complaint with the Madshus is the bases. Ours are 4-5 years old and have quite a bit of miles on them, but they started drying out in the scale section last year. I've hot waxed that area a couple times (it's a pain) and they still won't hold for an entire ski. They might be toast. Just fair warning. Fischer bases seem to be a lot better IMO. And you'd probably be fine if you went for a wax version of the Glittertind.
http://nextadventure.net/fischer-s-boun ... AvHo8P8HAQ
189 won't feel too long for you. I have these same skis. It's not the easy skin, but as we were discussing, the scales work so well the easy skin isn't 100% necessary. I'm guessing where that skin would really shine is in hardpack/ice where the scales can't get any purchase.
I'll be quite honest, I test all my skis touring on the same relatively flat circuit and then on a small hill (I ski other places but this gives me some A to B comp). These are by far the slowest skis I own. You don't really notice it while skiing them, but the times don't lie. I can do the same 4 miles a half hour quicker on my e89s (no joke). And I'm less tired. OTOH, the small hill I test on I can barely make two turns with the e89s - I can crank out 4 to 6 tight radius turns with the S 98s.
I'm not out for speed, but the added glide does make touring more fun. Some people think these a bit squirrelly too, especially on harder snow. They really excel for breaking trail in deep snow, and going up and down hills. If you have rugged terrain, you won't regret a ski like this. You'll more than make up the effort in the climbing and descending.
No idea what your budget is, but you honestly could pick up a pair of Glittertinds and a pair of S 98s for a decent price now.
http://www.skirack.com/browse.cfm/madsh ... AiGX8P8HAQ
For a quiver of two, it's not a bad setup. Throw pins on both and you can use the same boots with each, they'll be fine. Thing is, this gives you a good spread of equipment, the Glittertind is more like a track XC ski and the S Bound is more like a(n) (older) downhill ski. Really it's the camber profile and the sidecut that makes them really different skis.
I wouldn't be disappointed with those two skis to play with.
If you could afford a little more, I'd go with the e99 over the Glittertind:
http://www.backcountry.com/fischer-e99- ... lsrc=aw.ds
A few posters here have complained about the xtralite air channels, and I can't speak to this current model - my wife had a set from about 5 years back that were really nice. Light, stiff, fast.
My complaint with the Madshus is the bases. Ours are 4-5 years old and have quite a bit of miles on them, but they started drying out in the scale section last year. I've hot waxed that area a couple times (it's a pain) and they still won't hold for an entire ski. They might be toast. Just fair warning. Fischer bases seem to be a lot better IMO. And you'd probably be fine if you went for a wax version of the Glittertind.
Re: Advice on new skis
The one ski just not there is it???!! The 2 ski set up would cover everything for me while I wait for technology to make that ONE ski.
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MikeK
Re: Advice on new skis
Hmm... not sure that will happen.
I bought these skis as the ultimate do-all ski.
http://www.en.asnes.com/produkt/ingstad/
I've not had a chance to ski them yet, I bought them near the end of last year, but upon inspection, I don't think they will disappoint.
They are designed to be a do-it-all ski for NATO troops. In terms of width and sidecut they are very similar to the S 78 and the Eon. Mine have a very light camber. They have an kicker skin system and the edges are sharp and burly. The flex on the skis is smoother and more progressive than any other I own.
You can see they are all similar in the regard. The Ingstad is the lightest ski for it's actual length, yet it feels the sturdiest.
The only disadvantage is you have to wax them or use a kicker skin. In your area, that's probably not much of a disadvantage.
They'll also cost you as much as two pairs of the skis I linked earlier. If you want one really good, mid-width ski. This is probably the one to look into.
Neptune Mountaineering is the main US distributor. You can pre-order them now and have this fall. According to their sizing, you could get away with a 190cm.
I bought these skis as the ultimate do-all ski.
http://www.en.asnes.com/produkt/ingstad/
I've not had a chance to ski them yet, I bought them near the end of last year, but upon inspection, I don't think they will disappoint.
They are designed to be a do-it-all ski for NATO troops. In terms of width and sidecut they are very similar to the S 78 and the Eon. Mine have a very light camber. They have an kicker skin system and the edges are sharp and burly. The flex on the skis is smoother and more progressive than any other I own.
The only disadvantage is you have to wax them or use a kicker skin. In your area, that's probably not much of a disadvantage.
They'll also cost you as much as two pairs of the skis I linked earlier. If you want one really good, mid-width ski. This is probably the one to look into.
Neptune Mountaineering is the main US distributor. You can pre-order them now and have this fall. According to their sizing, you could get away with a 190cm.
Re: Advice on new skis
That Military NATO ski brings back memories. In the late 80s and early 90s when I was instructing for the Military I taught skiing and basic mountaineering. For skis we used a earlier version made by Elan... AKA "White Rockets" I was a much stronger skier back then.
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MikeK
Re: Advice on new skis
Last year's S88s are available in a 189 still:
http://nextadventure.net/fischer-s-boun ... rce=criteo
A strong width underfoot, same as the 98 but with less sidecut so it won't be as squirrelly for touring.
http://nextadventure.net/fischer-s-boun ... rce=criteo
A strong width underfoot, same as the 98 but with less sidecut so it won't be as squirrelly for touring.
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mugglesport
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:04 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
Re: Advice on new skis
First off, I'm so glad I found this place. There's a wealth of information in several threads that has been very helpful, especially from MikeK and lilcliffy (comparing S-Bounds to Eons/Epochs). Sorry in advance for the length of this post, but I've been stocking up so many thoughts about XCD since last winter.
I hope its OK if I piggyback on this thread instead of starting a new one because all of the skis recommended here are ones I'm considering. A little background: I am a downhill skier, but I live in southern Wisconsin. I love skiing glades and carving bowls in Colorado, but only get to do that once a year or so. We have several ski hills within an hour's drive of where I live. I can entertain myself on those for an hour or two, then I'm bored. Sometimes I bring my kid (6yo this winter) and ski with him. We'll also start teaching our 3yo to downhill ski this winter. A few years ago I bought a pair of waxless classic track skis (Fischer Ridge Crown). But in addition to unreliable grooming and unreliable weather, I frankly found groomed classic skiing to be too constrictive and boring as hell (and then there's the time I tried a parallel turn downhill...).
We have a lot of short and steep heavily-wooded terrain around my area (Madison, WI). I'd love to hit these areas regularly, but to be honest I probably wouldn't be able to get out there more than 3-4 times per month. On the other hand, right out of my back door is a big lake (Lake Mendota) that I would like to be able to ski on. With family life, I won't be doing any long tours, but I might be able to ski across the lake a few times per week. I could also see taking an XCD setup to the downhill resort to for a new challenge and sneaking into the woods. Maybe learning to tele...
At first I was looking at Altai skis, but more recently I've been looking at Madshus (Eon and Epoch) and Fischer (S-Bound 78/88/98 and this year's renamed models). I understand the differences between the skis (narrower=glidier, wider=floatier and turnier) but am having a hard time deciding what's going to be the most useful for me if I can only get one ski this winter. Same goes for bindings...I'd like to pick one binding type so that if/when I expand my quiver I don't immediately have to buy new boots.
Oh, I'm 6'4" and ~200lbs. My classic skis are 210cm and they feel ridiculous. Of course, I'm used to 179cm downhill skis.
I hope its OK if I piggyback on this thread instead of starting a new one because all of the skis recommended here are ones I'm considering. A little background: I am a downhill skier, but I live in southern Wisconsin. I love skiing glades and carving bowls in Colorado, but only get to do that once a year or so. We have several ski hills within an hour's drive of where I live. I can entertain myself on those for an hour or two, then I'm bored. Sometimes I bring my kid (6yo this winter) and ski with him. We'll also start teaching our 3yo to downhill ski this winter. A few years ago I bought a pair of waxless classic track skis (Fischer Ridge Crown). But in addition to unreliable grooming and unreliable weather, I frankly found groomed classic skiing to be too constrictive and boring as hell (and then there's the time I tried a parallel turn downhill...).
We have a lot of short and steep heavily-wooded terrain around my area (Madison, WI). I'd love to hit these areas regularly, but to be honest I probably wouldn't be able to get out there more than 3-4 times per month. On the other hand, right out of my back door is a big lake (Lake Mendota) that I would like to be able to ski on. With family life, I won't be doing any long tours, but I might be able to ski across the lake a few times per week. I could also see taking an XCD setup to the downhill resort to for a new challenge and sneaking into the woods. Maybe learning to tele...
At first I was looking at Altai skis, but more recently I've been looking at Madshus (Eon and Epoch) and Fischer (S-Bound 78/88/98 and this year's renamed models). I understand the differences between the skis (narrower=glidier, wider=floatier and turnier) but am having a hard time deciding what's going to be the most useful for me if I can only get one ski this winter. Same goes for bindings...I'd like to pick one binding type so that if/when I expand my quiver I don't immediately have to buy new boots.
Oh, I'm 6'4" and ~200lbs. My classic skis are 210cm and they feel ridiculous. Of course, I'm used to 179cm downhill skis.
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MikeK
Re: Advice on new skis
Hey mugglesport!
Here is my thought based on your background. Sounds like the XC part of skiing isn't really your thing. You might be better off getting a more dh oriented ski.
At your size, probably a 189 or 195 in a fatter ski will give you plenty of float. It's really strange about the sizes of skis. I feel pretty good up to about 200 and then they start to feel really looong after that.
Anyway, as maybe you've already figured out about this side of skiing, it isn't really about going fast, it's about using whatever will be the most fun for you. It's all a big compromise between the XC and D. Lots of people err to the side of D, and that's cool, if that's the part you are really, really after. And most people can do the XC part even if it's a little slower no matter what the ski is.
So, especially since you say you want to ride a lift, I'd shoot your toward a little bit wider ski - not so much really for the width there, but for the sidecut. If you look, the mid-width skis will have like 20mm or less, and the wider ones have like 30mm. That 10mm extra makes a big difference.
In S Bound land, S98 or S112. Both have the same sidecut, the 112 has more width underfoot. I'm 200lb and I find the S98 has adequate flotation. If you have really deep LE snows, the 112 might be better.
The of course, KOM, Vector, Stinger land... Any of those will work but they are less XC ski and more of a modern DH ski with scales.
None of these skis will really have the right damping and stiffness to rip hard on piste. My description is bouncy, skittery.
Boots and bindings you'll probably want to go light plastic and 3 pins - it will feel more like what you are used to as a DHer. I don't know if Excursions are being offered anymore - I didn't see them on Scott's site. If you can find them, they are an option. Scarpa supposedly revamped the T4 for this season with lots of good features, best of them is a thermomoldable liner.
As for the bindings themselves you could go for plain pins, no cables, they would probably serve you well to start. Then there are options of cables, wires with springs, dual-mode bindings like the switchbacks, etc... That may be something you want to grow into later. You could always buy the bindings with cables and remove them and try with and without and see what you prefer.
I ski my 98s with leather boots and no cable. It's fine for most terrain I ski and most snow. Where I don't like that setup is when it's hard or icy. With a plastic boot you pick up a lot of control though.
I'm not usually into these packages, but this one might be one to look into. Bindings might be overkill but the wires come off and you can use them just like a regular 3 pin.
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-561604313874 ... les-37.gif
Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide.
Here is my thought based on your background. Sounds like the XC part of skiing isn't really your thing. You might be better off getting a more dh oriented ski.
At your size, probably a 189 or 195 in a fatter ski will give you plenty of float. It's really strange about the sizes of skis. I feel pretty good up to about 200 and then they start to feel really looong after that.
Anyway, as maybe you've already figured out about this side of skiing, it isn't really about going fast, it's about using whatever will be the most fun for you. It's all a big compromise between the XC and D. Lots of people err to the side of D, and that's cool, if that's the part you are really, really after. And most people can do the XC part even if it's a little slower no matter what the ski is.
So, especially since you say you want to ride a lift, I'd shoot your toward a little bit wider ski - not so much really for the width there, but for the sidecut. If you look, the mid-width skis will have like 20mm or less, and the wider ones have like 30mm. That 10mm extra makes a big difference.
In S Bound land, S98 or S112. Both have the same sidecut, the 112 has more width underfoot. I'm 200lb and I find the S98 has adequate flotation. If you have really deep LE snows, the 112 might be better.
The of course, KOM, Vector, Stinger land... Any of those will work but they are less XC ski and more of a modern DH ski with scales.
None of these skis will really have the right damping and stiffness to rip hard on piste. My description is bouncy, skittery.
Boots and bindings you'll probably want to go light plastic and 3 pins - it will feel more like what you are used to as a DHer. I don't know if Excursions are being offered anymore - I didn't see them on Scott's site. If you can find them, they are an option. Scarpa supposedly revamped the T4 for this season with lots of good features, best of them is a thermomoldable liner.
As for the bindings themselves you could go for plain pins, no cables, they would probably serve you well to start. Then there are options of cables, wires with springs, dual-mode bindings like the switchbacks, etc... That may be something you want to grow into later. You could always buy the bindings with cables and remove them and try with and without and see what you prefer.
I ski my 98s with leather boots and no cable. It's fine for most terrain I ski and most snow. Where I don't like that setup is when it's hard or icy. With a plastic boot you pick up a lot of control though.
I'm not usually into these packages, but this one might be one to look into. Bindings might be overkill but the wires come off and you can use them just like a regular 3 pin.
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-561604313874 ... les-37.gif
Hope that helps. Let us know what you decide.
Re: Advice on new skis
mugglesport, glad you are looking for something similar. I just got here and already have received some great information. I think you will get some good advice. For me the boots and bindings were easy. I have two pair of Alico leather boots, one pair a Med weight and another pair a heavy weight. I also have Rottelfella and Volie 3 pin bindings. This is what I have skied the most with so that is what I want to use. Finding the right ski is a compromise and as MikeK suggested a two ski set up might be the way to go, but I am still looking.