Making telemark into something that it isn't. Rant.

[MikeK]

Yikes. Just going to try to clarify a bit here.

1. I'm not better than anyone else, nor do I think I am. I ski mostly touring for turns in Maine. It is not glorious.

2. I am not on the cutting edge of anything. I still ski 75mm because I don't trust NTN or TTS yet, and 75mm works fine. Also, the boots suck. Most of my skis are purchased used full of holes. I doubt my touring through brush in Maine progresses the sport.

3. I'm not attacking anyone/any kind of BC/XC/Tele skiing. My point was people shouldn't criticize others for trying to make their opinions on what gear/skiing (or boots) should be.

Admittedly, I get little sore when people start in with the whole "tele boots are fine the way they are" deal. If you guys haven't tried on an AT boot with a real walk mode, you should. Once you do, you will likely see why it is appealing to so many folks.

Now, I'm going to go try to find my way out of this dark place I seem to be lodged in....

Fair enough, and I get your point. But the OP decidedly made it clear that this was a rant. Perhaps his opinion is skewed. I tend to agree that making Tele into AT loses focus on what it really is. It's just a lame attempt (IMO) to keep up with the Jones'.

I hope you get why I was upset with you and understand why I'm sensitive to this. This place isn't going to turn into just another Tele forum and it isn't going to be like the old TTips.

Like I say, we don't need to be saturated with XC/XCD - it just happened that way. We honestly need more input from the other aspects of Telemarking.

[connyro]

.Like I say, we don't need to be saturated with XC/XCD - it just happened that way. We honestly need more input from the other aspects of Telemarking.

Mike, it would help if you didn't get so defensive when someone has an opinion different than yours. I appreciate and respect your enthusiasm and knowledge, but frankly you sometimes scare off other skiers that express an opinion contrary to yours. I don't think there's been ANY "bullshit behavior" in this thread.

Agree all you want. I made myself clear about the bullshit behavior I won't tolerate.

Why would you quote that and not the other part? Perhaps if you find that language too harsh you should head over to the G-rated forum(s).

Jeez. I was trying to make a point: It's not your language that bothers me. A MODERATOR should not be telling members of the forum that they MODERATE to "get your head out of your ass and accept..." anything. That is not moderating, it's forcing your opinion on someone else: the exact OPPOSITE of moderating.

WOODY: Apologies if you didn't like my response. I did not mean to insult or anger.

[Woodserson]

Doh. Lo Fi had a good response and it's gone. Is it coming back?

I'd like to extend a bit of an olive branch for the provactive thread title, I wanted it to get attention and I guess I hit a nerve.

Let's talk bikes again because it's a relevant comparison to what I'm attempting to convey.

My wife needed a new bike, and she has a neck injury and has a tough time craning her neck. We went to one of the most popular family friendly bike stores for a decent bike that she could ride around town and in 50mile charity rides. They had her try 48cm but it was too tight with head way down and neck up and ass up in the air, so we tried a 50cm. She was reaching for the bars and stretched along the frame. A solution would have been a threaded quill that could have brought the bars back and to her, but ALL THE BIKES were threadless with steerer tubes cut right down. I asked for a bike with a threaded quill, there were none. I asked for a bike with an uncut steerer tube, nope. He said, 'I'm sorry there are no solutions.' We walked out. I found a guy restoring old bikes and bought a MINT 1986 Trek, cro-moly, with beautiful lugs. We swapped out out the quills, it fit her perfect, she rides her charity rides, no pain.

Here is an older bike technology that works better for more people. A year later she brought the bike to be tuned up at the same store we went to before and the first thing the manager said was, (disparagingly) 'wow what an old bike.' This bike looks like it just came out of the factory and it's her baby and allows her to ride pain free. She turned around and left.

This is a problem. I'd hate to see tele go the same way, especially with such a small market base. It won't take much to send it down a negative feedback loops where we lose the products that work the best for the most.

Edit, also the feeeeel and the sooouuullll but that's another subject entirely!

[MikeK]

Jeez. I was trying to make a point: It's not your language that bothers me. A MODERATOR should not be telling members of the forum that they MODERATE to "get your head out of your ass and accept..." anything. That is not moderating, it's forcing your opinion on someone else: the exact OPPOSITE of moderating.

I didn't see at as an opinion. If you want to debate whether Telemark is a sport unto itself that excludes XCD and XC or a technique shared by all Nordic sports, I'll say that you should try elsewhere other than here. We often use the word Telemark to denote modern, heavy gear, but I want to avoid that dichotomy to extinguish this constant, and futile, battle between the heavy vs the lighter end of the spectrum.

My precursory comment only makes sense with the subject. And I'll stand by that.

My techniques tend to be extreme, but I wanted to make a point you wouldn't miss. I think I was understood.

You can say a moderator should take a very moderate approach, and for the most part, I do and stay out. But I have no problem making things clear and laying down some law should I see something I don't like. I'll be very fair and give you a million chances, but I do not tolerate certain things. And the line was getting close. I think the situation has extinguished itself but if I took a milquetoast approach, perhaps not.

[connyro]

I guess I begrudgingly see your point.

[ battle between the heavy vs the lighter end of the spectrum.

Personally, I don't see a battle here. I'm at both ends of the "Telemark" spectrum. Heavy and light. That's why this forum works for me. I use a telemark technique for the unique snow, terrain, and ski opportunities that exist where I live. It makes perfect sense to me. Heavy alpine and AT don't work as well as tele around my location IMO.

Also, some people DO see telemark as a sport all of it's own: Woody even referred to tele as a sport in the OP:

If telemark emulates tech/AT is it still telemark? Will it draw more people and 'save' the sport?

[MikeK]

I know you are, and many are. Many of us that aren't are delving into that realm. I just want it to be open and free and equal.

You guys did jump on Woods hard - I was busting his balls, but it's OK. Have a debate about it. The part that got me is what mainer said about leather and pins holding the sport back. I don't see it that way. I see it as the roots. And I want to be sure those people who see it that way too have a voice. I didn't want to get rid of Teleman, but his ties to Ron, his arrogance, his lack of accepting anything else, and his unwillingness to even figure out how to post a picture really made me question what the hell he was actually positively contributing.

I thought (and still think) mainer was a great addition to this forum. I was enjoying his perspective. I was quite shocked when he said that. Perhaps I interpreted it too harshly, but I want to make sure that attitude doesn't spread. Like I say, if you have that attitude, you can go to the other forum(s) where that is supported.

[dnt_upton]

Perhaps I interpreted it too harshly, . . . .

You did.

Why is one beginning rant OK but a rant in response to the first one not OK?

Ski and enjoy, call it sport, call it turn, or debate the difference (and the latter, totally, is the TTips of yesteryear).