Problems turning Fischer S‑Bound skis, remount bindings?

[MikeK]

Hmmm... any particular reason you bought these skis? Had you tried anything else?

Were your expectations that it would be easy?

[nemesis256]

Hmmm... any particular reason you bought these skis? Had you tried anything else?

Got them for low angle touring as well has cross country on groomed trails. Wanted something that fit between cross country and alpine skiing. Have not tried anything else similar.

Were your expectations that it would be easy?

I guess you could say that. I was hoping that I could steer the skis a little, but right now they ski a lot more like cross country skis than anything else. Seems the boots are the primary culprit, other than lack of experience.

[MikeK]

Is there anywhere you can demo a plastic boot like the T4 or Excursion?

This would at least give you a feel for what it is like to ski them with more boot. It's still not going to be exactly like Alpine.

Also, when did you start skiing Alpine? During the advent of shaped skis, or before hand when skis were straighter. This was kind of a curvy design about 20 years ago

Also, not sure if we asked, but how much do you weigh? The S98 has a relatively stiff camber and it seems that lighter skiers don't favor it (at least my unscientific research via forums). It suits me well @ 200lbs - it's not problem to squash out.

You may find a ski like the Annum much more suited to your liking (or even a more modern design). Its camber is more like an Alpine ski. This, of course, will hinder it's hard condition XC performance, and it is kind of noodly, so perhaps you'll think the edge hold a bit lacking. I find the S98 pretty solid myself, but I know what you mean... it seems a bit unruly in harder conditions.

Really what I think is one ought to have two pair of boots for a ski like this, a pair of leathers for soft conditions and a pair of light plastics for harder. It will help, but you can always compensate with practice.

I'd also just say, really get out and try these things on ungroomed conditions where the snow is either fresh or softened up a bit. I know that's a bit of a challenge this year (as snow seems to be in short supply), but really these skis are designed for fresh snow IMO.

[nemesis256]

Is there anywhere you can demo a plastic boot like the T4 or Excursion?

Maybe, I'll look into it at some point.

Also, when did you start skiing Alpine?

This is my 6th season. Although I didn't get serious until my 3rd season, and didn't get good at it until 2 years ago.

Also, not sure if we asked, but how much do you weigh? The S98 has a relatively stiff camber and it seems that lighter skiers don't favor it (at least my unscientific research via forums). It suits me well @ 200lbs - it's not problem to squash out.

I'm 130lbs, but without gear or clothes. I did read that the S98 were stiffer, and that's one reason I chose it, so it would kick and glide fairly well, which I think it does.

[MikeK]

OK - so you are used to a modern ski and probably never skied on anything like this dinosaur before... makes sense. I started skiing on skis like this that were heavier and had less camber. It just feel like a lighter, less damped version of them.

Here's the rub and everyone seems to have this issue with XCD, what do you really want? You can't have a great turning ski that tours as well as one that is horrid for dh. Same goes with boots. Same goes with bindings.

You might actually feel like you can horse around some lightweight XC skis on groomed conditions better than these skis, but more or less, once you get on wild snow, that will change.

There are some very knowledgeable people here that have skied nearly every damn ski in this spectrum in one configuration or another, and have some idea of the ins and outs they have. None are perfect. They always have some tradeoff one way or another.

And I'm not suggesting you scrap what you have, but it may never suit you. If so, cut your loss, sell it and buy something else. The aim here would be to really figure out what your expectations are try to give you some realistic information to help get you setup you will love. For instance:

An old school guy will tell you to get long, skinny, DC skis with metal edges and use pins and Norwegian welted leather boots, and that there is no other way.

A modern guy will tell you get Vectors, switchbacks and T4/Excursion and quit wasting your time.

But those are really two extremes. If you want to be somewhere in the middle, you have to live with the tradeoffs... or figure out which end you want to go to and figure the other aspect out.

I'd say, just from what I'm hearing your issue is weight and technique. Technique can change with time, or you can get a setup that will better suit your skiing style and then work into it. Either works if you are willing to commit. Weight might be a deal breaker. You could gain more, but you might struggle with a ski like that being 130 lbs. Your complaints seem typical of everything I hear about S Bounds and light skiers.

[nemesis256]

I think what I have is close, except for possibly the boots, and the weight issue you mention. But the weight issue is not something I've been able to notice, falls into the "I don't know what I don't know" category. And the boot problem is challenging, because I still want to kick and glide. What you said earlier about having 2 boots for the same skis might be a solution in the future.

I didn't get something like vectors because I already have an AT setup for steeper trails that skis just like alpine. Vectors would be too close to that.

I still wonder if mounting the bindings a little more forward would help with the problem of the tails washing out from under me. Attempt to get my feet more over the pivot point of the ski.

[MikeK]

Do me a favor and check you boot center position. If you can, measure from the widest part tip and tail, or the center of the running surface, and mark the center. Measure from the pin holes to your heel on the boot and find that center. Maybe you are too far back? I don't know a lot about this but it seems boot too far FORWARD would cause the issues of losing the tail, but maybe you are over-compensating for the camber and lag in response and overturning the ski?

Anyway, if your boot center lines up or is forward of the radius or running surface center, then I doubt that's the issue.

Two boots will definitely help, but you may just have better luck overall with a ski like the Epoch - it's a bit softer flexing.

I know it seems like a big hassle, but perhaps just tuning one part of your kit will make it all work together the way you want. The bindings will be fine, and selling skis flat is not hard and actually preferable for shipping.

Messing around with boots is a pain, so if those boots fit you and you like them, they honestly should be able to get the skis around... might just not be as much control as you hoped for.

[nemesis256]

It's a little hard to define running length, but I measured 60 inches. The red lines in the image below show from where to where I measured approximately. I have the 169cm skis. The 30 inch/middle mark was right at the ball of the foot, or the back part of the 3pin bindings. The boot itself covered the area from 28 to 38 inches. So it seems the pivot point is the ball of the foot, and that the boot is back from center quite a bit.

[MikeK]

You measured the right spots. I know that method is not very precise and why I favor something easy to measure like chord center.

Sounds like they are set perfectly for Tele. Father forward, a cm or two, would be more like Alpine.

You could definitely give at try, but think it over first... how likely do you think it will alleviate the problem and consider your skis to be more valuable with only one mount?

Like I said in my first response, what you said sounds dead nuts for what these new S Bounds should be. I have the gen before the easy skin and mine are right on balance, but that is also about 1cm forward of chord center. It seems like the easy skin changed the balance a bit as they took some mass out of the front of the ski with the skin hole, but didn't add any extra ballast to the tips.

Check pins relative to chord center just so we have another reference, please.

[nemesis256]

Chord length is measured from tip to tail with measuring tape flat on the floor, correct? If so, pins are 1/2 inch in front of chord center.