Alpine Touring vs. NTN (and perhaps other options) - looking for thoughts on a new setup

[lowangle al]

There were times last year when I was on wax skies and my ski partner was on WL skis.
He would often end up having an easier time of it for a lot of the day, but on the way out, I was effortlessly way ahead, just feeling the magic of gliiiiddddiiing on

Stephen, I was just supporting your comment about how you effortlessly were able to stay ahead of the guy on waxed skis. As far as the width thing I guess that was to emphasize how much faster they are as I would rather ski my waxed powder boards than my scaled dbl camber 55mm skis.

I think you guys can have your cake and eat it too by going with a T4s. Big enough for reliable and stable tele or P turns yet light enough to knock of 10 or 12 miles with a couple thousand of vert in 3 to 4 hours.

[fgd135]

If I wanted touring gear for mostly rolling terrain, and low/mod angle descents, but with a ski wide enough to turn nicely in powder conditions I'd want the lightest boot binding combination available that would still give the lateral support needed to actually turn the ski and control it while setting an edge on icy/hard snow when traversing trails or slopes. That's always the trade off, isn't it? Speed on the trails v. control in all conditions.
AT gear is certainly lighter these days, but it's not for kicking and gliding on rolling terrain--has an unnatural gait and stilted stride. It's for up and down. And lock down heel bindings for tele boots? That's a surrender to the dark side of the force.
NTN has some advantages, but it's mostly aimed at the same market--up, then down, and there aren't very many choices for ltwt NTN touring boots. NNNBC, in my opinion, is perfect for long tours in rolling terrain, but is just too light for good control on moderate descents unless you have superior skills and are matched with skis that don't overpower the leather/syntho fabric uppers.
That leaves the old standby 75mm bindings/cable bindings systems. Lighter boots like the T4, and the older Garmont/Scott Excursions, and probably others, have more support that NNN BC boots for turning, have flex patterns very reminiscent of leather boots for kicking and gliding, which is far superior to AT boot/bindings, are very lightwt for the control provided by the plastic uppers, and have good lateral support for turns, if your skis are not so wide as to overpower them. Plus, cable/pin bindings give touring and turning flexibilities...fwiw, I often use T2s for (steeper) touring instead of T4s', but the T2's are not as heavy as the old leather doubles I was using.
Just my 2 cents.

[Tom M]

Interesting.

Do you change out plates between up and down?
https://braasport.no/blogg/first-test-o ... -off-track

Alpina sports let me try out their new Alaska XP boot / Xplore binding / discovery 80 skis last May. They had the flat plate and the normal plate, but not the stiff plate. I did not change the plates out between the up and the down as I was just doing short laps. I plan to do lots more testing this winter, so stay tuned.

[Stephen]

Thanks @fgd135.
There are lots of ways to slice and dice all this, but for how I’m trying to figure out this puzzle, you pretty much nailed it. You have way more experience in this realm than I do, and I would pretty much agree with most / all of what you said.

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I pretty much equate the T2 with the TX Pro, each using a different binding system.

I’m still debating gear choice with myself.
I know I could go with a T4 and get more natural feel and slightly less weight, but would have to go with a 75mm binding and give up the releasability of the M3 NTN binding.

I’ll admit — I remember the feel of Alpine skiing and I think the V6 / M3 / TX Pro setup offers a lot of that feel in a Tele package.

If I wanted touring gear for mostly rolling terrain, and low/mod angle descents, but with a ski wide enough to turn nicely in powder conditions I'd want the lightest boot binding combination available that would still give the lateral support needed to actually turn the ski and control it while setting an edge on icy/hard snow when traversing trails or slopes. That's always the trade off, isn't it? Speed on the trails v. control in all conditions.
AT gear is certainly lighter these days, but it's not for kicking and gliding on rolling terrain--has an unnatural gait and stilted stride. It's for up and down. And lock down heel bindings for tele boots? That's a surrender to the dark side of the force.
NTN has some advantages, but it's mostly aimed at the same market--up, then down, and there aren't very many choices for ltwt NTN touring boots. NNNBC, in my opinion, is perfect for long tours in rolling terrain, but is just too light for good control on moderate descents unless you have superior skills and are matched with skis that don't overpower the leather/syntho fabric uppers.
That leaves the old standby 75mm bindings/cable bindings systems. Lighter boots like the T4, and the older Garmont/Scott Excursions, and probably others, have more support that NNN BC boots for turning, have flex patterns very reminiscent of leather boots for kicking and gliding, which is far superior to AT boot/bindings, are very lightwt for the control provided by the plastic uppers, and have good lateral support for turns, if your skis are not so wide as to overpower them. Plus, cable/pin bindings give touring and turning flexibilities...fwiw, I often use T2s for (steeper) touring instead of T4s', but the T2's are not as heavy as the old leather doubles I was using.
Just my 2 cents.

[Nick BC]

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I pretty much equate the T2 with the TX Pro, each using a different binding system.

In my experience T2 and TXPRO are not comparable. T2 and the discontinued TX (three buckle) are. I owned the TXPRO when I first switched to NTN and hated it. Felt like boat anchors on my feet, I’m an old T2 guy through all its iterations since the nineties. So I snapped up a pair of the TX’s when I heard they were being discontinued and have been happy as a clam ever since. They tour quite acceptably, with the upper buckle and power strap loosened off. Sold the TXPROS. So my advice if you want to go Meidjo/NTN look for a pair of TX’s if you don’t want to sacrifice too much freedom of movement in the climb/k&g.

Mind you, I still take my old last generation T3’s out for a spin with three pins if it’s a mellow day. That loses me 600 grams on my feet as I’ve stripped off the power strap and tour lever as I always ski in walk mode.

[Stephen]

Thanks @Nick BC
I don’t have the historical knowledge some of you do and didn’t know about the TX, so looked it up.
Yeah, that looks like it might be a better option than the TX Pro, being a little more boot than the T4, and softer than the TX Pro.
I can’t count on waiting around hoping one comes up in a 30 or 31 on eBay!
I don’t have the sense that the T4 is quite as much boot as I want, so it seems like the TX Pro is it for me.

I’m surprised to not find anything on the Internet comparing the T2 and the TX Pro.

[Woodserson]

Thanks @Nick BC
I don’t have the historical knowledge some of you do and didn’t know about the TX, so looked it up.
Yeah, that looks like it might be a better option than the TX Pro, being a little more boot than the T4, and softer than the TX Pro.
I can’t count on waiting around hoping one comes up in a 30 or 31 on eBay!
I don’t have the sense that the T4 is quite as much boot as I want, so it seems like the TX Pro is it for me.

I’m surprised to not find anything on the Internet comparing the T2 and the TX Pro.

Because the comparison was the legendary, much missed, TX. It was literally the equivalent boot. There are resources out there on modding the TX Pro to make it more TX like, however. Search for that.

[fgd135]

Because the comparison was the legendary, much missed, TX. It was literally the equivalent boot. There are resources out there on modding the TX Pro to make it more TX like, however. Search for that.

Man oh man, I wouldn't want to buy a new $729 boot and start carving it up or drilling holes in the thing, at least not for a season or two to see how I liked it as it is. After about 30-60 ski days, maybe.
Otoh, a used boot, I'd get that dremel and grind away.
Or, I'd stay with a lighter, better touring, ready to go right out of the box T2Eco, and use cables, 3 pin cables, or some kind of releaseable 75mm setup.

[Montana St Alum]

I agree that the T2 Eco and Tx are essentially the same, for different binding systems.
I used the T2 Eco (with Axl bindings) for a couple of seasons before going to the Tx (with Freeride, then Freedom bindings) for a couple of seasons.
Fit, flex, height of cuff were almost identical with the only difference being the flex characteristics of the bindings.

I also went through a couple of seasons on the Tx Comp on the Freedom bindings before transitioning onto the Tx Pro on Meidjo bindings.
On the Tx I tried adjusting the forward lean such that it was 1 notch more upright. I've continued that with subsequent boots and really find it more comfortable. It's an easy adjustment to experiment with.

With different springs and settings, you can tune the Meidjo bindings to give you a wide range of resistance to dropping a knee. More than what I got with the Freedom (or Freeride) bindings which I really can't recommend.

[Stephen]

@Montana St Alum, are you still using the TX Pro / Meidjo setup, or have you moved on to something else?