Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Rodbelan wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:20 am

Check with the Madshus Panorama serie... These are different than the older version. I have the M62. Great, great ski, for my taste... Very different than the Eon. Flex them, you'll see... King Harald V of Norway just bought 50 pairs... (just kiddin').

How so

How so? More H(Oslo), I would say. But they are kind of fast, specially in the downhill... How slow? They could be really slow when going uphill... or standing still.

How so
Awe slow
From Oslo

This is my haïku for today...

(Wait till I take a couple of beers for the rest).

FWIW, I've done a fair bit of steep skiing on Fischer Boundless (SB 98 predecessor, same sidecut) and at ~63kg found the 169cm too soft on firm stuff, let alone icy. (179cm SB 112s were better, but still not great on ice.) If you're serious about icy stuff then IMHO you will need (possibly much) stiffer skis, and I personally would be using plastic boots only, not leather or BC; the torsional stiffness is essential in my experience, and will save your feet cramping too. I'd also suggest that when things get steep, icy and/or narrow that's where parallel turns and a fixed heel really make sense, plus AT gear can be lighter too. You also need a wide enough ski or a tall enough riser that the bindings and boots cannot contact the slope and disengage the edge, much less of an issue with AT boots' generally narrower soles.

Your idea of "icy" matters too. Does this mean firm-ish snow where the edges bite easily, hard snow where there will be edge marks left, or blue ice where crampon points need to be kicked in to bite??? These will require progressively stiffer skis (and better insurance). A friend of mine died on a long, steep, bulletproof slope with no safe runout 10 years ago, so caution is advised; there aren't too many old, bold skiers.

Woodserson wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:43 am

Rodbelan wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:20 am

Check with the Madshus Panorama serie... These are different than the older version. I have the M62. Great, great ski, for my taste... Very different than the Eon. Flex them, you'll see... King Harald V of Norway just bought 50 pairs... (just kiddin').

How so

Do we know if the current Madhus XCD series (62/68/78) are made from the old Karhu mold (GT/10th Mtn/Guide) or are they the same as the short-lived Panorama 62/68 that had the skin insert?

It seems clear that the 62 that Rod has was different from the old XCD GT/Eon 62- but the current models look identical to the old molds, including the age-old Omnitrack extruded base...

Lighturn wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:51 pm

To summarize: The Falketind would be the "best" of the unsuitable four skis for my purpose - because of its superior torsional stiffness. The actual model might even be better.

There have been a number of reviews from Scandinavia that describe these skis (as well as the Xplore binding itself) as ideally suited to take advantage of thoroughly enjoying downhill skiing on moderate terrain.

One of the recent quotes from a review is something like "enjoying touring and downhill runs on terrain that is boring on Alpine Touring setups".

I think that this is a good description of what these skis are intended for and where they excell.

I don't really think that any of these skis are intended for serious big mtn AT skiing.

The new FT62 has been clearly tweaked to offer more efficient XC performance for skiers that want or need to travel significant gentle terrain to reach their downhill fun.

The Rabb 68 is clearly almost purely downhill focused- I am assuming that it would be a much less efficient XC ski, but offer better modern downhill ski performance than the FT62.

My point is that- I am still not clear what your intended use is, but if it is for an AT ski (i.e. climb up a mtn, ski down) the Rabb 68 would seem a better choice than the FT62?

As I thought: NO wider skis for the intended boots than 68 mm.

This depends on intended use, terrain and snow conditions-
For example, I absolutely love my 78mm Annum with Alaska/Svartisen/Guard BC- on moderate terrain and soft snow.
But I am not using this setup for Alpine Touring- nor would I take the Annum AT skiing.
Everytime I have mounted a modern Telemark boot on the Guide/Annum I have been very underwhelmed.

lilcliffy wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:59 am

Woodserson wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:43 am

Rodbelan wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:20 am

Check with the Madshus Panorama serie... These are different than the older version. I have the M62. Great, great ski, for my taste... Very different than the Eon. Flex them, you'll see... King Harald V of Norway just bought 50 pairs... (just kiddin').

How so

Do we know if the current Madhus XCD series (62/68/78) are made from the old Karhu mold (GT/10th Mtn/Guide) or are they the same as the short-lived Panorama 62/68 that had the skin insert?

It seems clear that the 62 that Rod has was different from the old XCD GT/Eon 62- but the current models look identical to the old molds, including the age-old Omnitrack extruded base...

Mine has the half skin attachment, no omnitrack; I compared em to my friends Eon, and we clearly saw the difference... Mine aren't made in the same core — they are heavier and stiffer. And I remember that we compared the camber; wasn't the same... I think mine was softer (hum, can't quite remember: but I think I wrote something on this forum about it). Same sidecut, but that's about it. Oh, and they have some rocker too. In my book, the Madshus 62, has a really well balanced design. I mean that they made good compromises, not impossible ones...

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will provide the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

Lighturn wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:49 pm

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will supply the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

I think that on this forum the most experienced with those conditions is @jyw5 If I had to buy for your conditions aforementioned I would read all his posts… you should be good for the night

Lighturn wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:49 pm

Thanks alot to all contributions!



I am looking for the ski that will supply the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.



Cheers

Lighturn

Okay Xplore leather boots, almost no reviews, the Alfa Free is supposed to be the best downhill boot in the field. It is also the most expensive.
Skiing ice and hard pack at 30 degrees, I wouldn’t think twice about doing that on my original Falketind. It’s plenty torsionally stiff. What the original lacked is longitudinal stiffness, the new Falketind Xplore has that. So I can say I don’t have an issue using that ski either. The new Rabb is supposed to be even better downhill. For me performance on the approach is too important to give up, so it’s Falketind Xplore for me.
I still don’t ski in your boots, and the is still a bunch of 70’s mm underfoot alpine touring skis that may be best for you. Good luck

Lighturn wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:49 pm

Thanks alot to all contributions!

Since I may have expressed myself not clear enough I try it in one sentence:

I am looking for the ski that will supply the most edge grip on hard packed frozen snow when used with Xplore bindigns and available Xplore leather boots.

I do not intend to kill myself in a sophisticated way using lightweight Telegear. Nor do intend to scatter down icy slopes on a regular basis and abuse the slender planks. As I wrote before: "I want the most suitable of all the not suitable skis for that job." In case I need it done every now and then. I know what the described setup is meant to accomplish and I know that I ask for the limits. I just want to have the most suitable ski when things get scetchy. Otherwise I would not even post in a specialists forum

Cheers

Lighturn

I haven't tested the Sverdrup enough...but I suspect that might be it. but you will need skins, and if really icy, full length skins needed. I keep my skins on the entire time when its icy. through the summer, I just leave them on the whole day. The new Xplore binding might be slightly better but ultimately rigid boots are needed for more control so you might not do that much better on Xplore+Alfa boots vs. NNN-BC+Alfa Guard Adv. It remains to be seen as the Xplore is brand new.
That said, technique/skill most likely most important factor.

I have seen skate skiiers with nnn skate setup ski up and down steep slippery bowls here in AK. its 99% technique. Equipment only goes so far...but these guys are also trying out for the US Olympic team or on it!!

I would eliminated the S112 and FT62 for the conditions you are describing. I can use the S112 only because they are my rock skis and I have over 5 yrs of experience on them (over 1M ft of vertical) and if you watch my videos, i look like an amateur on them on refrozen snow.


So either Nansen or Sverdrup. and 5cm shorter unless you are carrying a large/heavy pack. Xskins/kick skins are mandatory with backup full length 50mm straight skins.