Crazy Lift ticket Prices!!!!

[spopepro]

The idea of National Forests is not to build country clubs on them.

No, the idea of national forests is to cut them down, mine them, and graze them. Seriously, these aren't parks, and the fact that they are under the Dept. of Agriculture and not the Interior should make it clear that commercial recreational activities are about the best we could hope for under the current conditions. Also, non-leased FS land is still 100% free to ski, hike, camp, and nearly whatever else you want to do. I can't get on board with being mad at a leasee doing exactly what they said they'd do, and I like it 10000x better than mining.

[randoskier]

The idea of National Forests is not to build country clubs on them.

No, the idea of national forests is to cut them down, mine them, and graze them. Seriously, these aren't parks, and the fact that they are under the Dept. of Agriculture and not the Interior should make it clear that commercial recreational activities are about the best we could hope for under the current conditions. Also, non-leased FS land is still 100% free to ski, hike, camp, and nearly whatever else you want to do. I can't get on board with being mad at a leasee doing exactly what they said they'd do, and I like it 10000x better than mining.

My point is it is our land, we don't have to make exclusive country clubs for the rich on it. There should be a public outcry about exorbitant lift ticket prices and monopolistic operation of ski resorts using our public lands. Problem is Americans do not travel much, and therefore have nothing to compare it to.. Most do not realize how preposterous their lift ticket prices are for lesser facilities than you find in Europe. I can not believe anyone would defend the way US ski resorts are operated. It is total rip-off of the skiing public.

[randoskier]

Why is this so in America?

Because they can. There's no sense of being a community resource anymore, just greed and self-serving.

Season pass at Mt. Bohemia is $99. Day pass during the week at Indianhead is $30 for local residents. Season pass at the Porkies is 200 something (and includes one day at Marquette and two at Bohemia... might buy one of those next year, perhaps). Granted these are midwest ski hills with 700ft vertical drop but seems reasonably priced and community oriented. Marquette may be a different story, but Marquette itself is pretty different from the rest of the UP.

A day pas on a weekend at Vogel is $39. 1,800 ft vertical 8 lifts. 22km of slopes, also a "small" family oriented area

[fgd135]

My point is it is our land, we don't have to make exclusive country clubs for the rich on it. There should be a public outcry about exorbitant lift ticket prices and monopolistic operation of ski resorts using our public lands. Problem is Americans do not travel much, and therefore have nothing to compare it to.. Most do not realize how preposterous their lift ticket prices are for lesser facilities than you find in Europe. I can not believe anyone would defend the way US ski resorts are operated. It is total rip-off of the skiing public.

No it's about managing natural resources, and the role of the USDA. "Land of Many Uses" USFS lands, BLM, USNPS lands are abundant here, as opposed to the sometimes stiflingly crowded mainland Euro ski hills, where they have to charge less cause of the wait times and lift lines...and charge you for rescue and evacuation and first aid and etc. I think you misunderstand the mission of the USFS and the role of ski areas in at least the western US on leased public lands.
There's millions and millions of acres of free USFS, BLM and other public lands in the west that only require you to go out and earn your turns...even the National Parks are nearly free and the skiing is great in some them.

[fisheater]

Marquette may be a different story, but Marquette itself is pretty different from the rest of the UP.
[/quote]

Marquette is indeed a different town, only place in the entire world where a woman sent me a drink in a bar. In Marquette it happened three times!
I had a lot of fun skiing that little resort too! I also saw my first backcountry ski in Marquette. It was back in the day when skis were skinny, and it was a Karhu. That is when the seed was planted.

[Krummholz]

Lift tickets at Winter Park resort this weekend are $209. Or you can ski at the old Berthoud Pass ski area for free. They even have the lift poles for you to run into. Jack-hole snow boarders and newbie AT skiers to cut you off or run in to you. BYOB Après-ski in the parking lot. It will be a lot more crowded tomorrow. And I forgot that every year some dummkopf almost dies and has to be rescued.

[bauerb]

ski conglomerates( Epic, Ikon, etc) in the US are not a public service. they are corporations that answer to Wall St. its as very, very simple formula: consolidate to grow revenue and reduce costs. its not a unique M&A equation. it doesn't matter if you are an airline, bank or Travel and Entertainment service provider( eg ski area), there are only 3 core business principals that drive large corporations: Run, Grow, Transform. these are profit driven core principals and that will not change. you don't have to like it, but you should at least understand it.

[randoskier]

Lift tickets at Winter Park resort this weekend are $209. Or you can ski at the old Berthoud Pass ski area for free. They even have the lift poles for you to run into. Jack-hole snow boarders and newbie AT skiers to cut you off or run in to you. BYOB Après-ski in the parking lot. It will be a lot more crowded tomorrow.

Crowded? Where did you ski in Europe? These mountains are twice the size in vertical drop as US resorts, they have newer faster lift systems and more of them, way more terrain, longer slopes, more restaurants (and certainly better ones). They are far less crowded than US resorts.

If I want to wait in a lift line I will head for Colorado, and hope to get off I-70 before the weekend is over. Vermont has endless lines.

In non-covid years I average about 50 days of resort skiing in Europe- I ski Italy (Dolomite lifts are 1hr from my house), Austria, 3hrs. France 5 hrs, Switzerland 4 hrs., Slovenia 2hr., and Germany four hours.

I honestly can not remember the last time I was in a lift line- other than the line to get a cable car out of the valley in the morning to get into the lift system.

I am quite familiar with the role of both the NFS and the NPS having lived in Estes Park CO (Allenspark, actually) and Leavenworth WA in the Cascades for several years as well as having a family house in Warren VT. My wife is a former NPS employee.

Yes there is a lot of backcountry on those lands, so what? What does that have to do with the ridiculously stupid lift ticket prices in the USA? There is ton of back country here too and we use it, A funny thing about Americans is how they defend the corporations even when they are getting screwed by them.

[randoskier]

ski conglomerates( Epic, Ikon, etc) in the US are not a public service. they are corporations that answer to Wall St. its as very, very simple formula: consolidate to grow revenue and reduce costs. its not a unique M&A equation. it doesn't matter if you are an airline, bank or Travel and Entertainment service provider( eg ski area), there are only 3 core business principals that drive large corporations: Run, Grow, Transform. these are profit driven core principals and that will not change. you don't have to like it, but you should at least understand it.

Yes and that is where the US Government can step in and say these are the conditions of the lease! Bang zoom end of problem. For that to happen they need a a public outcry that mobilizes political will. The government is their landlord.

I have a pretty sound understanding of business having founded, built, grown, and sold two companies. Both greenfield projects.

[spopepro]

The crowds you mention are proof the prices are sustainable. People are paying them. And as far as government action, I know you've bounced, but many of us here are quite a bit more worried about blowing up 2400 acres of traditional apache land with esablished biking, hiking, and climbing, or the opening of sandstone canyons and bluffs to coal mining than what vail charges and the FS gets in return for 4 months a year. We don't really need your concern from afar.