Skis without metal edges recomendations
Re: Skis without metal edges recomendations
Not much to do with farmers, but it's a fact that the vast majority of groomers at alpine ski resorts and nordic centers never skied. Not even once. Talk to most of them, and you will see that they are machinery operators. They operate machinery all summer, and they plow your driveway in the winter. Good guys, very noble workers. But they know absolutely nothing about skiing. The concept of lifting the sled at the right time is not innate in them, it's a skill that needs to be acquired.
Re: Skis without metal edges recomendations
Yep. That was my point. Not farmers. Not evil doers. LOL. Just not skiers.
A few basic diagrams from published manuals, which any groomer with internet access can read if they GAF..
When groomers don’t do this, ppl get hurt. Ever tried going down a tracked hill? A steep one? LOL
How about taking a downhill curve off the racing line because there are tracks cut on both sides, narrowing the piste?
Don’t get me going on people getting driven off line because the track ends at the crest of a blind hill… which prevents them from switching sides to apex the turn in order to stay out of trees (which will kill you or send you to the hospital).
This stuff seems like “nice to haves” but it’s actually about trail safety… and it affects people on skis without steel edges the most. Which is what makes it on topic in a way.
A few basic diagrams from published manuals, which any groomer with internet access can read if they GAF..
How about taking a downhill curve off the racing line because there are tracks cut on both sides, narrowing the piste?
Don’t get me going on people getting driven off line because the track ends at the crest of a blind hill… which prevents them from switching sides to apex the turn in order to stay out of trees (which will kill you or send you to the hospital).
This stuff seems like “nice to haves” but it’s actually about trail safety… and it affects people on skis without steel edges the most. Which is what makes it on topic in a way.
Go Ski
-
Nitram Tocrut
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:50 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Ski style: Backyard XC skiing if that is a thing
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- Occupation: Organic vegetable grower and many other things!
Re: Skis without metal edges recomendations
May I suggest that trail groomers must be trained before actually starting. From what I read in this thread, I suspect that some trail groomers are not properly trained for the job. You must not simply tell someone to go groom a trail without proper instructions. Even though I have been skiing for so many years I would not have thought about lifting anything in a tight turn if not told to do so... hopefully that not make me an idiot 
Just saying
Just saying
Re: Skis without metal edges recomendations
This is precisely why it’s helpful to share knowledge. Is this stuff written down? Sure it is. But nobody will find it without looking for it… or until it is freely shared in an open and mature discussion.
When you ski a lot, on different pistes, you start to notice the differences. Do it enough and you’ll wonder “why” and maybe reach a revelation on the trail. Or go looking for the answers. Talk to a professional, experienced groomer. Watch a race and see how the skiers deal with curves and hills. Read a grooming manual from cover to cover. Get out onto the trail and confirm what contributes to flow, speed, safety etc.
You’d be amazed at how many people groom trails without knowing how to do anything except turn diesel into noise… or fresh snowfall into unskiable shit. Actually, you wouldn’t. We’ve all skied our fair share of blissful snow and utter shite enough to tell the difference in quality of grooming. It’s the precise words used to describe “why” that eludes us.
If you see tracks laid on tight radiused curves, the groomer doesn’t know what they’re doing. If the tracks stop and start again in all the right places, they do. Ever ski in bright sunlight… find it hard to differentiate between the lands and grooves of a track? This is why there should be a longer ungroomed gap coming out of a curve (especially from the tree line into an open area)… it gives the classic skier time to reacquire the track and slot into it instead of having to sidestep into it using the Braille method because they’re snow blind.
We’ve probably all skied both types of pistes and marked difficulties down to “us”, “the width of our skis”, “being out of practice”, “forgot our sun glasses”. Sometimes these things are true… but sometimes the groomer is making things more difficult than they need to be because they don’t know “why” they should be doing something.
Who cares? This question answers itself if you’re hoping to move from bronze to silver distances on edgeless skis at an event like a ski marathon. Because poor grooming might be enough to blow a timed stage… or raise the level of physical challenge to the point where you must retire. And that’s if you don’t get injured because the groomer did something really stupid on a fast section that your edgeless ski simply couldn’t handle.
Things are just as complicated in the backcountry. Nature grooms snow too. It uses wind, gravity, sun, shade, and time. Once ppl know how this works, they can enjoy much better skiing by allowing consolidation to happen before attempting a personal best distance… or they can accept the challenge that comes from ignoring how nature works.. Nature has a lot of fun with fools and hard cases.
Skiing really is a thinking man’s (and woman’s) sport. As skiers, we need to know how and why things are a certain way. The same is true in serious sports, where a professional will understand the sport on such a high technical level so that everything they do looks like Zen to the amateurs.
The flip side is not freely sharing knowledge, which reduces things down to a game of Texas Hold Em. But that is not very sportsman like, is it?
When you ski a lot, on different pistes, you start to notice the differences. Do it enough and you’ll wonder “why” and maybe reach a revelation on the trail. Or go looking for the answers. Talk to a professional, experienced groomer. Watch a race and see how the skiers deal with curves and hills. Read a grooming manual from cover to cover. Get out onto the trail and confirm what contributes to flow, speed, safety etc.
You’d be amazed at how many people groom trails without knowing how to do anything except turn diesel into noise… or fresh snowfall into unskiable shit. Actually, you wouldn’t. We’ve all skied our fair share of blissful snow and utter shite enough to tell the difference in quality of grooming. It’s the precise words used to describe “why” that eludes us.
If you see tracks laid on tight radiused curves, the groomer doesn’t know what they’re doing. If the tracks stop and start again in all the right places, they do. Ever ski in bright sunlight… find it hard to differentiate between the lands and grooves of a track? This is why there should be a longer ungroomed gap coming out of a curve (especially from the tree line into an open area)… it gives the classic skier time to reacquire the track and slot into it instead of having to sidestep into it using the Braille method because they’re snow blind.
We’ve probably all skied both types of pistes and marked difficulties down to “us”, “the width of our skis”, “being out of practice”, “forgot our sun glasses”. Sometimes these things are true… but sometimes the groomer is making things more difficult than they need to be because they don’t know “why” they should be doing something.
Who cares? This question answers itself if you’re hoping to move from bronze to silver distances on edgeless skis at an event like a ski marathon. Because poor grooming might be enough to blow a timed stage… or raise the level of physical challenge to the point where you must retire. And that’s if you don’t get injured because the groomer did something really stupid on a fast section that your edgeless ski simply couldn’t handle.
Things are just as complicated in the backcountry. Nature grooms snow too. It uses wind, gravity, sun, shade, and time. Once ppl know how this works, they can enjoy much better skiing by allowing consolidation to happen before attempting a personal best distance… or they can accept the challenge that comes from ignoring how nature works.. Nature has a lot of fun with fools and hard cases.
Skiing really is a thinking man’s (and woman’s) sport. As skiers, we need to know how and why things are a certain way. The same is true in serious sports, where a professional will understand the sport on such a high technical level so that everything they do looks like Zen to the amateurs.
The flip side is not freely sharing knowledge, which reduces things down to a game of Texas Hold Em. But that is not very sportsman like, is it?
Go Ski