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Solid advice. I appreciate the thoughts. Quick update:
I watched the Telemark Movie some more and noted that initiating the turn requires moving the lead knee in, toward the leg that is bent at a 90 (toward the direction you intend to go). I tried this today and only on uphill turns. I didn't bother connecting any of the turns. Just one at a time. To my surprise, when I turned my knee in, the skis bit the snow and pulled me along into a turn. I found an open face with a gentle slope and practiced this for quite a while. It's incredible how minute changes to technique have significant effects on the outcome. I am, of course, still a long (long) ways off, but at least I now have a foundation.
This is not an easy thing to do, and it shouldn't be. Why would I want to do something difficult when there are easier alternatives? I guess it just feels better to me. Why do I paddle a whitewater canoe when rafting is actually easier? Same reason. Properly done, nothing else even compares.
What a great post by jalp and others on this thread. As frustrating as it might be in the beginning, the time and effort will pay off in the end. This whole thread inspired me to create a Youtube Video. I know that many others will end up here searching Google for tips on how to turn XCD skis. I'm not an instructor, just an average old fart who has been at this so long, it just seems like second nature. Its easy to forget that we all struggled in the beginning. This video is not meant to be an instructional video, but to offer up some tips and encouragement for new skiers that are having problems learning the turn.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:25 am
by GuillaumeM
Two days ago I went on a little trip in Nordmarka (30 minutes north of Oslo) after some snowfalls. Mainly 10 cm new wet snow with the following setup: Åsnes Gamme (68-54-61) in 190cm, Åsnes Nylon skins 30mm, BC binding, Crispi Stetind. For the first time I put some nice linked turns in forest tracks on so narrow skis, what a pleasure!
What worked for me was to use more vertical bounce while stepping the external ski and also throw the upper body over this ski. It seems important to not be on the defensive, leaning backward, but trying to engage your body facing the slope. At some point I almost had the feeling that my head would reach the vertical of the external skis tip. Also pressuring the internal ski (with the bend knee) is important to stabilize it. I definitely need more practice, but I was very surprised by the short linked turns I could make with this skis (I started last year with Sbound 98 so it is quite different). It remind me in a way some methods that I used for learning skiing on 80's monoskis (pin tail, very low turning radius) where the hips, the body position facing the slope, the head above the tip and the bounce are all key points for shortening the turns and link them. Hope those few advices can help finding the unlocking point
This is not an easy thing to do, and it shouldn't be. Why would I want to do something difficult when there are easier alternatives? I guess it just feels better to me. Why do I paddle a whitewater canoe when rafting is actually easier? Same reason. Properly done, nothing else even compares.
What a great post by jalp and others on this thread. As frustrating as it might be in the beginning, the time and effort will pay off in the end. This whole thread inspired me to create a Youtube Video. I know that many others will end up here searching Google for tips on how to turn XCD skis. I'm not an instructor, just an average old fart who has been at this so long, it just seems like second nature. Its easy to forget that we all struggled in the beginning. This video is not meant to be an instructional video, but to offer up some tips and encouragement for new skiers that are having problems learning the turn.
All hail.
Another great video.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:14 am
by fisheater
Tom that was an excellent beginning backcountry XCD video. From the introductory instruction of practicing the up and down lead changes to the slope survival techniques at the end, and the video demonstration on what turns look on changeable backcountry snow, high camber skis, and leather boots. Very well done.
Just curious, how much of the gear in your pack is survival and comfort gear, and how much is camera equipment?
Just curious, how much of the gear in your pack is survival and comfort gear, and how much is camera equipment?
My pack varies quite a bit depending on the temperature, terrain, and nature of the tour. For this video, I was skiing alone and in an avalanche safe area, so I did not carry a shovel, probe, or beacon. I always carry extra layers, not only for comfort, but for an emergency, just in case I break a leg and have to wait for help. This includes a stocking hat, warmer gloves, a puffy jacket, waterproof gortex upper shell and pant shell. I also carry a small sit pad to keep me off the snow, and two pairs of chemical hand warmers. When I'm in the backcountry, I carry waterproof matches and a couple paper towels that are vacuum sealed in a bag, and a small ski scraper and a small bottle of liquid glide wax. If I need to build a fire, the liquid glide wax applied to the dry paper towel makes an excellent fire starter. Other emergency items include a small amount of tape and some cordage to repair a broken ski pole or to jerry rig a way to lash my boot to the ski. Optional items for me are skins and goggles, depending on the tour. I always carry my cell phone, even if I don't have cell coverage, as I use it with GAIA and downloaded topo maps for navigation, and it serves me well as a camera. If I plan on shooting some video for my youtube channel, I'll include a Go Pro. For this video, I also carried a large tripod and a second camera, but I rarely do that. Last but not least, is a small bottle of water and some food. When I'm not in the backcountry, skiing well used packed trails, I scale back to a butt pack, and eliminate all the things that I would need for an emergency overnight.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:11 pm
by ianjt
I greatly appreciate the time and effort that went into that video, Tom. I gained a lot from watching this. I like the point you made, you can't force these skis like you can a downhill pair. Feeling the turns and letting them play out is different than alpine where you -- as you said -- command the ski. Much appreciated. I will let some snow fall today before I get back after it tomorrow.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:22 pm
by lilcliffy
Excellent stuff in this thread.
Another fabulous video Tom!
.............
I have a couple more tips to add to Tom's video-
The first one is a survival tip on much steeper terrain- using an uphill kick-turn-
If the terrain is steep enough that you need to make kick-turns to get down it-
The terrain can get steep enough and/or the snow difficult that you can get into trouble doing a downhill kick-turn-
If necessary- you can do an uphill kick-turn.
The second tips relate to using step and striding turns-
Whenever you are coming down a gentle to moderate hill practice shifting your weight from one leg to the other (rather than locking up)-
Practice shifting your weight back and forth-
And then stride into a turn.
An extension of this is to actually pick up your ski and place into a turning position- and then weight the rear/uphill leg.
Rather than pressuring your way into the turn- one can step/stride into the turn which effectively shortens the radius of the turn by snipping off the beginning and end of the turn.
I would also strongly recommend practicing jump turns.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:32 pm
by lilcliffy
More notes- when you point them XC skis downhill-
DO NOT elongate!
Don't let that rear/uphill leg get away from you- do not let it get away from your center of gravity and become a trailing leg that is useless. This matters no matter what turning technique you use!
Also-
Unlike when you are XC skiing-
Open up your stance when you point downhill- at least hip-width apart.
Re: Help Me Learn How to Turn...
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:22 pm
by Tele2$room2$broom
The best way to learn is actually to take a class from someone knowledgable... a certified instructor for exemple. It is much easier that way... There is noting like having live interaction...
