Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Sorry- but I must disagree here-
I make jump turns on my 210 Gamme 54 all the time-
I don't think that any flex pattern is a prerequiste for being able to make a jump turn-
(though I think a very round, soft-flexing ski might/could be difficult in very deep soft snow, if it already suffers from "pool-cover-syndrome"...)

The rebound- or "snap"- of a ski is a function of camber- and more stiffly cambered skis offer more "snap"-
My personal experience is that this is more relevant when making linked, carved turn transitions than making jump turns per se-
but, if the "snap" of camber facilitates jump turns, then the stiff longitudinal camber of a ski like the Gamme is certainly going to facilitate a jump turn...

I don't see why the ability to bend the ski into a reverse arc would be a prerequiste for making a jump turn...

People can be older, less athletic, less experienced etc. Try and fail or try and succeed.

Reverse camber, flat ski might make it easier. Esp if hop skills are weak or the binding is mounted too far forward from the balance point. Doesn’t mean that it can’t be done on a cambered ski. Just takes more effort, ability than others may have. Everyone is different.

On jump turns, and I'm not an expert, I did notice that I had to be careful not to try to jump forward. My natural inclination is to jump forward. Lean forward, weighting the balls of the foot, push up and forward. If you do that you're going to be leaning back when you land and...
For me, working on these, its more about jumping straight up, not jumping forward or side to side. The motion you want is rotation of the skis which, by conservation of angular momentum, you have to start before you leave whatever surface you're jumping from. If you're in powder, when you jump up, your skis are going to sink. Then, when you land, your skis are going to sink again. In both cases, when you sink you slow down. One more thing to account for!

Drills. Start stepping in, out of tracks. Standing still, moving on flats, moving downhill. Step turns. Bunny hops downhill no turning. Then add rotation. All this builds balance, coordination, muscle memory, ankle control, ski awareness. Broad skills. Just like tele turns… balance, bend/unbend knees, lead changes, weighting, linked turns.

Maybe I’m on a different planet, but I don’t jump at all. I unweight the skis, the skis unload, I pull my legs up, rotate my skis in the air, and start my next turn.
It only looks like I jump

If you just lift your knees quickly, you’ll have to rotate your trunk in the opposite direction as your skis. It’s a conservation of momentum thing. Had a coach explain this with falling cat videos.

Starting rotation as you push off will keep your body centered. Like good DH mogul technique during the initiation phase, except you’re not rolling knees and ankles to edge the skis. Doesn’t progress to shaping (trunk rotation to the mid point before completion down the fall line).

A jump turn is a flat turn. Doesn’t mean flat ground. Just means that skis remain parallel to the ground on x,y,z axis. Really hard to do that if torso is going one way and skis are going the other way. Hard to do that if binding pin line is forward of the BP. Hard to do in deep dense snow. Easy in natural powder on firm base if technique is good. If not, you get unbalanced or fall. Easiest on compressed groomed snow… rewards bad technique.

John Dee wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:22 pm

The first time was at Bolton. I found the cold, groomed snow to be workable.

Something happened at Mad River Glen today. I stayed on similar, beginner slopes… the lack of grooming seemed to make it a chore.

Success on a well groomed hill doesn’t equal success in more natural conditions if technique is off. Raising knees, feet, skis THEN rotating doesn’t work outside artificial conditions. People find this out when they move off the groomers.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:33 am

Maybe I’m on a different planet, but I don’t jump at all. I unweight the skis, the skis unload, I pull my legs up, rotate my skis in the air, and start my next turn.
It only looks like I jump

It sounds like a jump turn to me fish. That's all there is to it. The greater the directional change, the more unweighting you need. You can practice them on lower angle slopes where you don't NEED them, but they're fun and good practice.

We need jump turns where our ski/boot combo can't turn the skis fast enough while remaining on the snow. It's just extreme unweighting.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:55 am

fisheater wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:33 am

Maybe I’m on a different planet, but I don’t jump at all. I unweight the skis, the skis unload, I pull my legs up, rotate my skis in the air, and start my next turn.
It only looks like I jump

It sounds like a jump turn to me fish. That's all there is to it. The greater the directional change, the more unweighting you need. You can practice them on lower angle slopes where you don't NEED them, but they're fun and good practice.

We need jump turns where our ski/boot combo can't turn the skis fast enough while remaining on the snow. It's just extreme unweighting.

OP is on light gear. Requires tighter technique due to flex of boot, ankle.

Jump turns are mostly a light gear technique. You need to be on pretty steep and tight terrain to need them with modern alpine telemark gear. It's an important turn to know with skis that don't want to turn.

Light gear, heavy gear… same technique, different challenges. It’s a jump turn. Need to start the rotation before unweighting.

Jump then rotate on heavy gear will cause even more torso rotation. Heavier boots and skis to turn. More stable boot binding interface in horiz plane. Less stable in vert plane with tts. So got to be mindful of that.

Different gear… different challenges… same technique.