Excursion 88 vs. Ingstad vs. transnordic 82

[lilcliffy]

@Christian96moeller
My advice at this point is to make a decision about wax + kicker skin vs scales.

My point is that there is no reason to consider the Asnes Combat ski if you are leaning towards having a scaled ski.

If you end up considering scaled skis- then you are still left with choosing between Fischer's very grippy scale insert, vs Asnes (and others) that have less grippy scales.
Personally- I use grip wax on both smooth-based and scaled Nordic touring skis, and I am not completely decided re my preference re scale grippiness...(After last "winter", I am currently leaning towards Fischer's scales vs Asnes...)

If I had to have one, I would pick a smooth base and use soft waxes and kickers for difficult warm and icy snow-
I say this in the context of my local touring and extended periods of cold soft snow.
If I skied in a different climate- where I am always dealing with soft waxes/klister- I might choose a scaled ski for my #1 touring ski.
(My issue with soft kick waxes/klisters is not the wax- it is the fact that I have to remove it before applying a skin. We can get well below freezing at night here as late as mid-May- resulting in frozen icy snow that requires skins for climbing in the early morning...)

[Christian96moeller]

Hi @Lilcliffy

I would definetly prefer scales over a waxable base. The snow conditions where, I have been skiing, rarely favors wax IMO.

This pushes me in the direction of the E-88.

My recent fascination about Combat Nato was due to the construction of the ski.It just seems to have much stronger contruction. Also you described it to be slightly better than the E-88 from a downhill perspective.

I getting very close to make my purchase, but do you any advice for this last consideration?

Thanks for all the help!

best regards

Christian

[lilcliffy]

The Combat NATO definitely has a more robust- and likely more durable- construction (ie solid wood-core, plus binding reinforcement) than the Fischer 88's wood-air channel core.
The Combat NATO also has a full-wrap steel edge.
The Combat NATO has a different topsheet than the other Asnes Fjesllskis- it has a smooth plastic feel, as opposed to the almost nylon feeling Ingstad...

Generally- my experience is that Asnes skis have significantly higher-quality materials (ie cores, edges, topsheets) than equivalent Fischer Nordic touring skis-

that being said, Asnes has had a number of production runs with poor quality construction- leading to delamination problems- note that this is not a consistent problem.

My experience is that Fischer's construction quality is second-to-none, despite their cheaper quality materials.
For example, I find that Fischer Nordic touring topheets show significant wear after little use, and need regular minor repairs, but I have not seen any delamination issues (other than their ridiculous racing-skin notches!)

I am assuming you want steel edges?

[Christian96moeller]

Hi again @lilcliffy ,

Now I made my purchase.

I went for the Combat nato waxless in 205 cm length.

Adding up all the factors it seemed like a better choice for me than the E88:
- Slightly longer.
- Construction materials.
- I will be able reuse my skins from my Rabb skis.
- A perhaps slightly better downhill performance.
- Perhaps a better ski to build up a quiver around?

I ordered them home without bindings, since I plan to reuse the bindings from my Rabbs, and eventually sell them. Also gives me the option of returning them if they dont feel right.

The only downside would be the price, as the E88 are quite a bit cheaper.

Definetly looking forward to feel the snow under my feet!

Special thanks to you, @lilcliffy! your ski knowledge has been a enormous help. Been great discussion the different ski options with everyone of you!

best regards

Christian

[fisheater]

Good luck Christian, I really don’t think you could have made a bad choice between the two skis on your final list. I don’t know what the used ski market is in Denmark, but your Rabb should have value. Drilled once, light to moderately used skis are a great value for the purchaser. However, if you’re not going to use it, that Rabb is at its maximum value now.
Regardless, good luck on you new skis on future tours! Keep in touch.

[lilcliffy]

@Christian96moeller
Very cool!

Waxless Asnes Combat ski- didn't know that they made one!

205cm? Must be the new Combat ski- based on the current Ingstad (as opposed to the previous-gen Ingstad)?
Does it have significant rocker in the shovel?
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato-62-bc/
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato/

The turn radius on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter than the old Combat and the 88-
though the XC glide zone on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter when skiing on consolidated/hardpack snow-
the Ingstad/Combat 62 is equally stable when XC skiing in deep snow.

Note that I am assuming that the Combat 62 is the same design as the current Ingstad BC...

Exciting! Keep in touch and let us know how you make out!
Best,
Gareth

[JohnSKepler]

@Christian96moeller
Very cool!

Waxless Asnes Combat ski- didn't know that they made one!

205cm? Must be the new Combat ski- based on the current Ingstad (as opposed to the previous-gen Ingstad)?
Does it have significant rocker in the shovel?
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato-62-bc/
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato/

The turn radius on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter than the old Combat and the 88-
though the XC glide zone on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter when skiing on consolidated/hardpack snow-
the Ingstad/Combat 62 is equally stable when XC skiing in deep snow.

Note that I am assuming that the Combat 62 is the same design as the current Ingstad BC...

Exciting! Keep in touch and let us know how you make out!
Best,
Gareth

I tried to get some clarification from Asnes last summer but customer service didn't know how to answer my question. Are we saying that the Asnes Nansen now comes in a pattern base? The rep didn't seem to understand my question as to whether or not BC and/or waxless means pattern base and the description was vague. They call some of their skis BC that do not have a pattern base. I also communicated with both Neptune Mountaineering and Varuste and neither of them could answer that question.

I looked at the Asnes website and I honestly can't discern any real difference between the Combat NATO and the Combat NATO BC. Neither mentions waxless or pattern base in the description. Sport Albert currently lists three different Combat Nato skis with slight variations in the title and description. Interestingly the one listed as 'waxless' talks about a "moderate wax pocket", which isn't really consistent with a pattern base.

[Lhartley]

It will say in the specs if the ski is "waxable" or "waxless".

Pattern base

https://www.en.asnes.com/produkt/nansen-waxless/

Taxable

https://www.en.asnes.com/produkt/nansen-bc/

Kind of confusing because voile uses the "BC" description to note the product as patterned base.

As for their combat nato descriptions, whoever does their web page wasn't hired based on talent. It's nonsense. Disregard. The BC version seems to just lack the nordic rocker?

[fisheater]

@Christian96moeller
Very cool!

Waxless Asnes Combat ski- didn't know that they made one!

205cm? Must be the new Combat ski- based on the current Ingstad (as opposed to the previous-gen Ingstad)?
Does it have significant rocker in the shovel?
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato-62-bc/
https://www.asnes.com/produkt/combat-nato/

The turn radius on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter than the old Combat and the 88-
though the XC glide zone on the Ingstad/Combat 62 is much shorter when skiing on consolidated/hardpack snow-
the Ingstad/Combat 62 is equally stable when XC skiing in deep snow.

Note that I am assuming that the Combat 62 is the same design as the current Ingstad BC...

Exciting! Keep in touch and let us know how you make out!
Best,
Gareth

I tried to get some clarification from Asnes last summer but customer service didn't know how to answer my question. Are we saying that the Asnes Nansen now comes in a pattern base? The rep didn't seem to understand my question as to whether or not BC and/or waxless means pattern base and the description was vague. They call some of their skis BC that do not have a pattern base. I also communicated with both Neptune Mountaineering and Varuste and neither of them could answer that question.

I looked at the Asnes website and I honestly can't discern any real difference between the Combat NATO and the Combat NATO BC. Neither mentions waxless or pattern base in the description. Sport Albert currently lists three different Combat Nato skis with slight variations in the title and description. Interestingly the one listed as 'waxless' talks about a "moderate wax pocket", which isn't really consistent with a pattern base.@Christian96moeller[@Christian96moeller





John I bought a WL Nansen, BC binding, 30 mm X-Skin delivered to my door $400 USD from Varuste in November. The ski wasn’t a 2nd either, not that it would have bothered me.

[lilcliffy]

I tried to get some clarification from Asnes last summer but customer service didn't know how to answer my question. Are we saying that the Asnes Nansen now comes in a pattern base? The rep didn't seem to understand my question as to whether or not BC and/or waxless means pattern base and the description was vague. They call some of their skis BC that do not have a pattern base. I also communicated with both Neptune Mountaineering and Varuste and neither of them could answer that question.

Hi John,
When you say "pattern base" I am assuming you are referring to a "waxless"/scaled base?

I am not sure that I understand the confusion-
all of Asnes skis that have the term "waxless/WL" in there model name have an extruded scaled base;
all other Asnes skis that do not have the "WL" moniker have a sintered smooth "waxable" base;
the moniker "BC" in Asnes skis seems to be used for sintered "waxable" fjellskis that have a "waxless/WL" counterpart (eg Ingstad BC (wax model); Ingstad WL (waxless model)).

I looked at the Asnes website and I honestly can't discern any real difference between the Combat NATO and the Combat NATO BC.

The new Combat NATO 62 has the same description and profile as the current Ingstad BC/WL→ 10cm lengths to 205; rockered and tapered shovel.
The old Combat NATO- that does not have the "62" in the name- and often has the term "Jeger" (ie "hunter") in its marketing- is based on the previous-gen Ingstad→ 10cm lengths to 210; traditional non-rockered, and non-tapered shovel.

These two skis may share the same sidecut-width dimensions, but they are VERY different in terms of geometry and associated performance.

Neither mentions waxless or pattern base in the description. Sport Albert currently lists three different Combat Nato skis with slight variations in the title and description. Interestingly the one listed as 'waxless' talks about a "moderate wax pocket", which isn't really consistent with a pattern base.

The third ski on the SportAlbert site is the "waxless/WL" extruded-scaled version of the Combat NATO 62→ 10cm lengths to 205; rockered and tapered shovel. This must be the ski that Christian has bought- it must be based on the current Ingstad WL ski (as the Combat NATO 62 is based on the Ingstad BC (wax version)).

Asnes hasn't added the Combat NATO 62 WL to their site yet.

As an aside- I am concerned that this may preclude the end of production of the old Combat NATO- which IMO/IME is a much more versatile design for Nordic touring...

(I personally think that the current Ingstad is due for a refresh, and that the shovel rocker needs to be toned down- similar to what they have done with the FTX and Rabb...)