Time Travel

[lilcliffy]

Don’t let diameter fool you- diameter can be a very poor indicator of age. Trees that grow in groups are the same “age”- or at least grew from the same event- the bigger ones have just grown faster.

If I was closer I would go with out with you and we could core those trees and count the rings.

Do you mean 6 feet in diameter, or circumference?

The white pine on that “10 mile stretch” looks like it might be growing on glacial gravel deposits- this is common throughout the northeast.

You are speaking of Algonquin Park, ON? Algonquin Park is in the heart of the “Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Forest Region” (that drier, continental climate that extends from central Ontario into the Northern Lake States). Pine and pine-mixedwood forests naturally dominate this forest region. There is much more pine in Algonquin Park than in the Adirondacks (the Adirondacks are cooler and wetter).

[MikeK]

I'm fairly certain they have been aged. Probably one of the dendrology professors at Paul Smith's College, but the age quotes I've seen in quite a bit of reputable literature.

No 6' in diameter was the numbers that were claimed. Would be over 18' in circumference if they were round.

I just scaled the record high tree in NY from a picture. Not sure it's age but 158' high, looks to be about 5' in diameter. I think these trees were much more in that range.

I was looking for a picture of circumference measurements from that guy I was talking about, I couldn't find them in the stuff he's posted. I'll have to contact him. I bet he has a spreadsheet.

[Cannatonic]

White pines get big fast, eastern mass. is full of large ones. In March 2010 we had 95 mph winds from a nor-easter that devastated big old white pines on the north shore of Mass. The largest and oldest trees were affected the most, not uprooted, mostly the trunks were broken off 5-10 feet above the ground. Many of the stumps are still around.

A local park had several downed monsters, 3-foot diamter trunks and bigger. I was sure the trees were hundreds of years old, but I counted rings on a few and none were older than 90 years. They seem to prosper in sandy soil, I've read that drought tolerance is their big advantage over dedicious trees.

I love learning about trees and geology. I didn't know fire played such a big role in the forests around here, but it makes sense.

[MikeK]

Hey - I found some info in one of my guide books about those trees. Apparently they had been cored. Dated to 1815. So only 200 years old last year. Circumference of the larges is in the 15' range (so around or less than 5' diameter).

They are on a small knoll and the speculation is a that hurricane that year caused some severe storms that wiped it clean. White pines took over.

The area was severely logged in the mid-1800s but the guess is that those trees were left alone because they were too small at the time.

Reports from loggers are that old growth Whites in the area, when they were first logged, were 5 or 6' in diameter. I don't know that any exist that large today.

[athabascae]

200 years is pretty old. As I said earlier, in Ontario we found that white pine stands over 170 years old take on typical 'old-growth' characteristics.

[MikeK]

Yeah I was looking into age for that criteria. They say it depends on the species.

I found this map of NY:



from this site: http://www.ancientforests.us/AncientForests.htm

I want to know what that big block is in the central, western Adirondacks. Looks to be Pigeon Lakes Wilderness Area, and the one more north and west parts of Five Ponds and Watsons East Triangle.

[MikeK]

I went out to see the old trees again. I didn't have a tape measure with me so I held up my ski, which is 196cm tip to tail for some scale.

I wandered around a bit more than the first time and noticed a couple other trees I hadn't. There are actually a lot of very large white pines in this area, but when you hit this particular grove, you realize the difference.

The more average trees, probably 3-3.5 feet in diameter surround the bigger ones.





Then you start to find some more exceptional sizes:



And the biggest in near the heart of the stand:

[MikeK]

You can't imagine how cool the bark is on the big trees:







A really, really straight one we found. Not the biggest, but in the 3.5-4' range I'd say:



A unique perspective of that tree:

[MikeK]

Not all from the original stand made it:





I really like this tree. It wasn't the biggest or straightest, but it had a nice spot. There were a few monsters in this area wrapped in smaller hemlocks. It was really, dark and green there.



Beautiful day to ski in the mountains:

[Cannatonic]

nice! Good job getting back there to document this for science! I am totally in awe/worship of big old white pines too.