Fischer E-109 vs. Asnes Ingstad

[Cannatonic]

I'm even wondering where to mount my boot. I need to think on it some and do some more measurements on the wax pocket position. I think getting really good glide out of these will be challenging due to their soft nature.

this is what happened to me - don't want to drill these beauties full of holes like some $20 Craigslist skis! that's why they're still unmounted. want to get it right the first time. I do think I've settled on BP as Neptune advises though - thought you liked BP as well - you thinking more chord center?

My SB78's were mounted at BP - it feels about right to me. I like where my E99 210's are mounted, which is the same spot as BP on the Gamme's. I felt like any farther forward on the E99's and I'd have a problem herringboning.

I was thinking it'd be cool to get the 35mm skins for decent glide on spring snow. Cut them shorter if necessary. Based on my use of kicker skins last year the 60mm will be enough to climb almost anything. The Cog Railway might need full skins.

[MikeK]

I'm 99% sure I'm going to mount on chord center for these skis. It's only a cm, but I'd rather be a cm more centered on the ski than back.

[lilcliffy]

LC - first of all, no carping about melting snowpack when you've already skied dozens of days! People are starving here man!

Right you are my friend! I have had a decent ski season despite the late start- and this most recent rain event. I certainly have no right to complain!

It's snowing here today- heavy and wet. Was in Fredericton this morning (50kms south, and 250m lower in elevation)- it was raining! There are now bare lawns in town!

Got out for a ski on my waxless Eons this evening on that wet stuff (frozen white concrete for a base underneath).

Calling for rain in Fredericton tomorrow- I'm crossing my fingers. It's supposed to be hovering around the freezing mark- could easily get snow instead in Stanley.

as for the Gamme's, I would say hell no! They're noticeably stiffer than the E99's with more camber. Stiffer flexing in every way. I think the Ute magazine review was right when it said the Nansen flex matches the E99. The E99 are nordic-shaped skis and have double camber but are fairly soft-flexing IMO.

Cool- this was my impression- I was just disturbed that you didn't have a wax pocket on your 210cm Gammes- perhaps I misunderstood.

I can't speak to the Combat/Ingstad but the Breidablikks have more camber than my S-bound 78's. The Breidablikks are not close to double camber, but they have that last little bit of hard resistance where the ski doesn't want to press all the way flat. They have a stiff flex in the middle but the tips of the Breidablikk are noticeably softer than the SB78.

This is certainly what I am hoping for from the Ingstad.

[lilcliffy]

I mount all of my "XCD" ( ) skis on balance point- I want the balanced kick. My downhill/"telemark" technique in light BC-XC tech doesn't benefit from a forward mounting position anyway.

I do mount my "Telemark" bindings further forward though.

[MikeK]

I can't speak to the Combat/Ingstad but the Breidablikks have more camber than my S-bound 78's. The Breidablikks are not close to double camber, but they have that last little bit of hard resistance where the ski doesn't want to press all the way flat. They have a stiff flex in the middle but the tips of the Breidablikk are noticeably softer than the SB78. The three 84/62 skis from Asnes seem like nordic powder skis to me. If you look at them from a nordic perspective they're big fatties for deep snow. If you look at them from an alpine/downhill perspective it doesn't make sense.

To me it sounds like you have a different ski that I do.

The tips are a slight bit softer on mine vs the S78, but not a lot. It's probably the lack of steel.

I only measure 3mm more camber unloaded, and it's softer. Goes right away. Who knows with this. Variation could be all over. Might not even use the same press for these skis despite them being nominally similar.

I just did something else, a stupid little game... I stood on both skis, the S78 and the Ingstad and shifted my weight back and forth. At first I couldn't tell a difference, but I did this for a few minutes and eventually I could feel the difference. I could feel that the Ingstad feels smoother as it compresses. that the only way I can describe it. And that's about the only thing I could feel

I can look for differences, but I'm still not finding much to write home about...

[MikeK]

I mount all of my "XCD" ( ) skis on balance point- I want the balanced kick. My downhill/"telemark" technique in light BC-XC tech doesn't benefit from a forward mounting position anyway.

I do mount my "Telemark" bindings further forward though.

I've been trying hard to feel a difference with that. I have skis mounted on balance and some mounted way forward. Kick feels the same to me. When I'm side stepping or flailing around in difficult conditions where I want the ski to lift perfectly balanced, it usually gets snow on it anyway that I have to kick off. I'm thinking as long as you aren't way out to lunch it doesn't matter that much.

Really though I want the tip/tail relation of the Ingstad to feel like my 78s. Maybe it won't be optimal but I've skied the 78 a fair deal and those skis are within a cm of length, and I'll be switching back and forth.

[athabascae]

The Breidablikks are not close to double camber, but they have that last little bit of hard resistance where the ski doesn't want to press all the way flat. They have a stiff flex in the middle but the tips of the Breidablikk are noticeably softer than the SB78.

I can't compare the Ingstads to similar skis (e109/eon/s78) but I'd echo Cannas comments (I think I did on page 25). My Ingstads flatten really easily, except for the last 5%, which is super hard to compress, preserving a wax pocket.

Then again, I didn't necessarily get the Ingstad thinking it would be double cambered gliding machine, more of a swiss army knife ski. For pure kick and glide bliss, I'm looking at an e89 class ski.

In my limited experience with the integrated kicker skin, the 60 mm nylon is for climbing only, or perhaps in deeper powder. For a kicker skin for kick and glide stuff I'm also going to look into the 35 mm mohair.

I liken skins to lines for fly rods, where a slightly different fly line can completely transform the rod action and application. Fly lines are relatively cheap and you can easily carry a different one with you to adjust to the conditions of the day. Using a small variety of lines, you can get away with using one rod to suit changing conditions or extend its applicability. I'm betting a small suite of skins, can do the same for the Ingstads or similar skis, and I plan to get the 35 mm mohair and also use a full length 50 mm nylon to complement the 60 mm kicker skin. This should be most important on multi-day tours or while traveling, where you only have one ski and want to be able to match the conditions or terrain as best you can with what you got, and can't dig into your quiver of skis. At least, that's the thinking on my part. Of course, wax provides this too, just with a more limited range of adjustment.

I mounted on balance point, not knowing anything other.

Tom

[MikeK]

I can't find my calipers, so I measured the gap height with a rule, which is harder for me to line up and get the resolution, so the result is not great. I may blow this away later when I find my caliper and can measure like I did the other two.

[lilcliffy]

Would be interesting to see different lengths in that comparison as well...

I wonder how my 205cm Eons would measure up in that camber test...they certainly support my weight more effectively than the 195cm Eon.

Care to throw your 200cm Asnes Combat skis into that camber-stiffness test?

Now all we need is the E-109 in the comparison test...

I am still most concerned about the reverse-flex pattern of the Eon/S-78/Ingstad...I am most concerned how it's going to perform when I really push it hard- both in a K&G context, and a downhill context- and what its effective flotation is...

[MikeK]

Yeah I should put a S98, USGI ski on there, etc... just for comparison. I don't think the USGI skis is going to change much with only 30 lbs though...

I don't know if it got lost in the last flurry of posts but the tail is definitely stiffer on the S78 and the Ingstad than the Eon. It should stay flatter in deep snow.

I actually had no issue with the 78 in that deep snow I was in earlier this week. It didn't feel like it was bowing as I was touring with it.