Pre Season Conditioning

[GrimSurfer]

https://www.swixsport.com/en/tips/arti ... g-program/

One approach. Not mine, as I make no claims that I train as effectively as I could for XC season. I do stuff that sort of gets me there, but I need to do more Zone 3/4 and less Zone 5.

[spopepro]

That’s just the tip of the iceberg though, as there are likely exercise programs that trainers guard jealously.

I haven’t found this to be true—but you do need to know where to look. Competitive XC isn’t my game, but in cycling, running, weight training, I’ve found national team coaches to be happy to talk about what they’re doing. The best ever was the Aussie track cycling coach talking about the sprint program (it involved lots of chocolate cake and not a lot of time on the bike… but the weight program blew my mind. I’ll see if I can dig it up) edit: grand! Someone copied it here.

The garmin and associated metrics are garbage and for not serious athletes. Training peaks form/fitness/fatigue trifecta gets a lot closer, recognizing that TSS is tuned for cycling and works ok for other workouts. Also that training load from strength workouts and life in general aren’t captured. Managing fatigue and stress is a challenge for everyone.

If you want updated understanding of how we now measure things, this podcast episode is really good. No one talks about vo2 max anymore. The discussions are much more precise about accessing and developing different metabolic pathways specific to sporting demands. Lots of pertinent info on that podcast.

[GrimSurfer]

I suspect VO2 Max isn’t a popular discussion point because it takes years to change. This violates the instant gratification aspect of pop fitness.

In some respects, it’s the instant feedback that has build the fitness sensor/app market. We can see some evidence of this in the analytical tools associated with each device… there’s not much attention given to long term analytics. One has to do that manually (except for simple plotting of VO2 Max test results, but this elementary).

On the other hand, the software does a good job at calculating what I’d call “area under the curve”. This is a tedious manual calculation that is almost impossible outside of a sine wave.

This doesn’t mean that the data collected by devices is useless, just that many people don’t understand it’s strengths, weaknesses, uses, and misuses.

But it’s all about VO2 Max because form will only take one so far. Strength is almost meaningless without endurance (unless you’re a power lifter). Anyone care about the leg or bench press capability of the dudes whose VO2 Max is 80+? Nope. It’s not part of the discussion because the sports are all endurance events.

A certain cadre in professional sports is about finding and honing genetic freaks. This results in a few super athletes who are single sport wonders. The pathway approach might be oriented along these lines.

[Jurassien]

Environment, genetics, and early development probably play some role. But there are likely training and nutritional components that can get a natural “65” to “80+” in the space of a few years.

That goes without saying - but you can't polish a turd, and few trainers would want to waste their time attempting to do so. They need the raw material to work on in the first place, and someone with a VO₂ max of 65 is already a candidate, head and shoulders above most normal mortals.

The man I climbed the Matterhorn with many years ago pointed me in the "Cooper" direction and I'm eternally grateful to him for doing so. Incidentally, he was a citizen of your country (although an ex-Brit) and went on to become the founder and president of the International Triathlon Union.

[bauerb]

all the electronic gismos and software offer various types of micro-rewards because many adults are like little children: if they don't get rewarded in some manner on a frequent basis, they will give up. gamification with ribbons, gold stars, ever changing metrics...are designed to make you feel good...that you are "making progress". but there is a huge difference between people who exercise for exercises sake or "soul cycle glory", and those who "train for sport". just look a the cringe-worthy peloton commercials where the sweaty instructor is barking at the class to "go harder than yesterday" or whatever. if your goal is to impress a peloton model, go for it. if your goal is endurance racing...you need to up your training sophistication.

[GrimSurfer]

Ha ha. Too right, bauerb.

15 years ago, I tried Nike+ sensors. They were good (but not exceptional) for logging distance and dates in Nike shoes (LOL).

Then Nike came out with an app, that added cheers and canned congrats at certain points. Even for weak effort on my part. Hated. Every. Minute. Of. It.

I don’t need a drill instructor or Oprah to motivate me. But a lot of people do. I guess that’s what drives Peleton sales.

[spopepro]

I suspect VO2 Max isn’t a popular discussion point because it takes years to change. This violates the instant gratification aspect of pop fitness.

No, it’s out of favor because it’s not well predictive of being fast. Even the list posted up thread shows it. There are some all-time greats there, but also some… not all-time greats. There are endurance world record holders with vo2 maxes in the 60s. The only thing you can say about it is an individual improving their own vo2 max will likely correlate to an improvement in endurance, but it’s not in any linear or predictive fashion. People at the front edge just don’t use it anymore.

[GrimSurfer]

Agree… if the issue is “fast”.

Speed and endurance are different. One is dependent on muscle fibres (type, density). The other is dependent on VO2 Max, glycogen stores, etc.

To win, you need both. But you can’t change your slow twitch muscle fibres to fast twitch ones.

You can improve VO2 Max to optimize your performance potential. Just like you can work on technique to optimize your performance potential. Just like you can work on non aerobic forms of conditioning.

This is not a take-it-or-leave-it discussion. It is quite nuanced and, yes, aerobic efficiency is still a part of it.

XC skiing is an aerobic sport, after all.

[bauerb]

I did 30 mins on the ski erg today after an easy Z1 run for an hour. why I am running in the middle of Nordic and Skimo race season? because I need a break from skiing everyday and if I don't use my run muscles, I get sore when I do use them.

btw, I was absolutely killing it on the SkiErg today. I was easily wining worldcup sprints in my mind. I felt very fast. if the Masters division of the Ice Badger Loppet pursuit in 2 weeks comes down to a 2 mins double pole finale, watch out, my triceps are coming through ! sadly my genetics respond by building mass whenever called upon...I'm built for ski criteriums...let me know if there every is one.
joking aside, after 4 weeks of actual skiing and ski erg, I now have enough ME to double pole on the erg for 30 mins at Z1. a month ago I did not have enough ME to get my HR above 110 or so.

[spopepro]

Agree… if the issue is “fast”.

Well, why else are you training? Anyone can roll off their sofa and collect their participation medal for their 9h marathon. All you need is to be head strong enough to stave off the boredom.

All aerobic sports are about speed, from the 4km individual pursuit to the 48h all-in-one push alpinism objectives. The goal is always to move faster. Faster is safer, faster is more fun, faster opens new opportunities. Fast to me right now means averaging 10km/h skiing classic over 8-10 hours. To do that I’ve gotta be fully below aerobic threshold for nearly the entire time at that speed.

You’re not entirely wrong, but I can tell you learned this stuff 20 years ago and haven’t updated since then. What you are saying *was* the state of the art, but isn’t any longer. The podcast I posted would be an excellent intro to some of the new thinking, and it’s between a former Nordic racer/coach and a cycling coach/sports performance researcher.