I could turn last week, but not this week, maybe next week?

[Manney]

Telemark when necessary. Not necessarily tele. Depends where, when.

[connyro]

Telemark when necessary. Not necessarily tele. Depends where, when.

when is a telemark turn necessary?

[lowangle al]

Quick and simple questions for Manny: Do you use the telemark turn? Do you partake in xcd skiing? You've mentioned your alpine racing experience but I wonder if you speak from experience when you give advice about tele or xcd, especially considering your first post on this site:

Returning to the sport after many years. Work, location (Munising), and crazy weather might allow me to get out five or six times a season (1-2 hours a sesh).

Will this be enough to build or maintain a high skill level? Would a big quiver help me develop rapidly as a skier? Maybe four or five new/used skis?

Not trying to call you out, just looking for some perspective. 5 or 6 times a season for 1 to 2 hours each time is far less than an average week of skiing for many skiers.

It's pretty impressive that with that skiing schedule he was able to xc ski 300 miles this year, like he stated on page 8 of the "weigh in" thread. Or, maybe he's full of crap.

[Manney]

Necessary? It’s a style turn mostly. Some times are better than others. I find teles fun on moderate smooth slopes w a bit of pow. Up to knee high maybe. Nature stuff. This is where it has utility. More of a Telemark skiing thing. Doing it on corn is fun as long as underlying base is firm. Not a useful turn for ice or rapid changes in direction. Horrible in, on crust.

[lowangle al]

Gee, I never knew T turns weren't good for rapid changes in direction, thanks for letting me know.

I agree that P turns are better than T turns on hard icy snow, but for me, on free heel gear in crust I'm stickin with the T turn. Telemark gear is not as good as fixed heel gear for crust.

[Manney]

It's pretty impressive that with that skiing schedule he was able to xc ski 300 miles this year, like he stated on page 8 of the "weigh in" thread. Or, maybe he's full of crap.

Need to drive to Porkies for proper Telemark skiing. Fair XC, DH opportunities easier here on a regular basis. XC, trails. DH, hills. One is weather dependent, other not. All close by. Maybe not daily. A few times a week. The great thing is that DH, XC skills are useful to telemark skiing. Can drop in, out of tele with a solid skiing base.

[connyro]

It's pretty impressive that with that skiing schedule he was able to xc ski 300 miles this year, like he stated on page 8 of the "weigh in" thread. Or, maybe he's full of crap.

Need to drive to Porkies for proper Telemark skiing. Fair XC, DH opportunities easier here on a regular basis. XC, trails. DH, hills. One is weather dependent, other not. All close by. Maybe not daily. A few times a week. The great thing is that DH, XC skills are useful to telemark skiing. Can drop in, out of tele with a solid skiing base.

I live less than 30 miles from Munising. There's more than enough good tele and xcd options within a few minutes drive from me. While the Porkies is a fun place to ski, it's not the only place for "proper telemark". What about Bohemia? Marquette mountain sees a lot of tele traffic too. To the north and south of Marquette are plenty of great hills to tele/xcd. The weather has not limited my skiing this season much if at all: between xcd and tele at above mentioned ski hills, I usually get 70 to 80 ski days each season and it's been about the same this season.

[Manney]

That’s true. About an hour’s drive on a good day to MM. ? on a bad day. #28 can be a pig. Can always go south thru the junction. Skied that mountain out as a kid iirc. Haven’t tried the bc trails, which I don’t think were there back then. A few hills to putter around on. Not a putterer though. That’s what I like about the Porkies. This season hasn’t been bad. A little weird at times. Time more challenging than weather.

[connyro]

That’s true. About an hour’s drive on a good day to MM. ? on a bad day. #28 can be a pig. Can always go south thru the junction. Skied that mountain out as a kid. Haven’t tried the bc trails, which I don’t think were there back then. A few hills to putter around on. Not a putterer though. That’s what I like about the Porkies. This season hasn’t been bad. A little weird at times. Time more challenging than weather.

Bohemia is a bit longer of a drive than Porkies but well worth it on a powder day. Long steep fun hill.
I gave up alpine skiing when I moved to Michigan until I started telemark and stomping around the woods on wide light scaled skis. It added a level of challenge that alpine does not do here in the upper Midwest. After 20 years of only freeheel skiing there's still that challenge to me.

[JohnSKepler]

For me, working on these, its more about jumping straight up, not jumping forward or side to side. The motion you want is rotation of the skis which, by conservation of angular momentum, you have to start before you leave whatever surface you're jumping from.

This is correct. Rotation, not jumping to the side. Start in low, no pow conditions. Move to more pow, steeper angle, after mastering technique in low pow. Visualization important either way. Rotation of entire ski, not a pivot. Equal weighting, unweighting on both skis.

Start with an open stance. Not ideal but it will help balance, reduce chance of tips crossing. You’re building muscle memory, spatial awareness for the jumping, unweighting, rotating, posture part. Anything that gets you there in good form is a +. Closing up the stance after weighting and rotation is nailed.

With so many things made so easy through technology, it’s easy to forget that this stuff is hard. I guess it takes years to learn. It isn’t like playing a video game or something that you can master in a few days or weeks.

I’m wondering where I’ll be at the beginning of next season? I think I’ve still got a month or so, maybe more. But at the beginning of this year I had never done a proper Tele turn. Now, in good conditions, at up to 30° or so, I can link turns pretty consistently. I can do quick Tele hockey stops to the left. I can ski down narrow trails through a combination of plowing, tele, and alpine techniques. I can jump turn a bit on very-low angle, compacted snow but haven’t successfully done one in anything soft or deep; I sink too much! I’m not graceful but I don’t fall much either. I need to both get faster and get better at integrating alpine techniques when necessary as well as improving my maneuvers to the right.

I’ll ski out this year when I get back from vacation in warm and sunny Virginia, then hit the weights over the summer. I need to move past just lunges. Maybe also lunges with skis on to keep me honest and better break in the boots? Or do some climbing in ankle weights? I also think I’ll do a lot of jumping on skis in my basement. Maybe put down a few layers of carpet and work on that muscle memory. Does anyone do this?