Weigh In

[Manney]

More proof that skis don’t care how tall you are. They do care how you put them on edge. The brothers pioneered a new way to change edges before leaving a turn and entering the next turn. I read their book in the mid-eighties? on how to ski freak’n fast. And Greg LeMond (5’10”) when I put together a “dirtbag” road bike.

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Not here to argue human performance. Poll is about body type. In a real fuzzy sense. Discussion linking that to ski sizes relative to manufacturers target body types. Target has a defined height and weight. The charts.

Wish companies catered to everyone, so that we could all achieve personal bests. Chances of that happening appear slim on skis outside the boundaries for which they were made. Also a mass produced, marketed product. Sometimes the charts show lengths that don’t measure up… camber differences between individual skis, l-r balance points that differ. Even through all that, the fit charts are the only thing skiers have to go buy. And they cater to a set range of height and weight for BC skis.

Just the way it is.

[Manney]

Interesting tidbit

“That investigation did not evaluate ski length related to body height but reported an average of ~20% longer nominal contact area (the ski length minus the kick wax area) between the ski and the snow among women (Breitschädel, 2012), indicating that women are using longer skis in relation to their body height.”

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/1 ... 54864/full

Women, higher bmi on average (earlier link from a study). Ski chart (ex. Asnes) show women’s skis oriented to lower end of typical bmi range. So women need to move up in size for a better overall weight match. So skis, contact areas proportionally longer than for men. Smaller wax pocket. Makes sense.

What happens for shorter, higher bmi males? Same thing? They’re short so don’t have to weight that much to get a high bmi. So have options on the ski chart. Not ideal ones though. Nothing on the charts specifically cater to their height AND weight.

Taller, heavy guys run out of options on the ski chart. This we know. Their choices? Max length, reduced kick wax pocket (if knowledgeable). Move to dh oriented skis + skins, instead of tele/bc hybrid skis? DH ski charts rarely list height, weight as selection parameters. It’s more condition based. Hard packed, groomed, pow, big pow. Don’t track, glide well compared to a well sized bc ski. Turn real good.

[TallGrass]

Wish companies catered to everyone, so that we could all achieve personal bests. Chances of that happening appear slim on skis outside the boundaries for which they were made. Also a mass produced, marketed product. Sometimes the charts show lengths that don’t measure up… camber differences between individual skis, l-r balance points that differ. Even through all that, the fit charts are the only thing skiers have to go buy. And they cater to a set range of height and weight for BC skis.

This reminds me of something I posted in the "Bindings 101: How to mount Telemark bindings (Part II)" thread
https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... 616#p53480

For mass-produced
consumer-grade ski stuff
with consumer-grade tolerances
known to be often installed "by the owner,"
I think that level exact-itude is both R&D wa$teful and a liability lawyer-wise, same as you do not design owner-assembled kids bicycles to require a Ph.D. in structural mechanics.

For competition skis such as Olympic-quality where winners are separated by 0.01sec, sure, I can see higher, tighter tolerances and assembly precision at play.

Regardless, a good design has to have a Fudge Factor because even Olympic skiers don't want a screw that will snap the second it reaches +8.4F, nor snaps when they take their skis inside a 65F building to tune them up. That could ruin a run, a career (failure, injury), and thereby brand reputation. Hence any new design should hit the test lab first for stress tests under varying conditions to sift out any weaknesses BEFORE it's used to attach to a human.

That's how I look at it. If one is so far down the tech rabbit hole they are separated from triggering neurotransmitters (seratonin, endorphins, etc. ya know, "fun") by moving across H20 in it's countless forms amid varying states, the rabbit ceases to jump.

I'd hazard for most ski equipment makers, you've got to make it worth their while, either "there's a market for it" where they can recoup their R&D+Production costs plus some profit, you pay them $$$-$$$$ to make you a custom ski, or you ski at such an elite level that having you on the podium with their skis will convert into $ales of others buying their ski stuff. Even philanthropy has a cost.

[Manney]

Ski reps on the amateur circuit used to show up with a truckload of skis. One brand, 3-4 models, 3-4 lengths, 100s of examples. Previously matched by weight, camber. So no l-r issues. Demos to try on the hill. When you find a model, length, they bring 20 sets from the truck. Measure you up. If you’re competing, your stance, movement is dialled in. Reflexive. Helps with fitting. Precision mounting follows. Not “good enough, customer won’t notice”.

Not a custom ski. But custom selected, trialled, fitted. Of the several made up this way for a skier, one will be special. Maybe the way the laminate cured was different? Once off the tour, there’s none of that unless you’ve been picked as the next Bode. Not custom, but not a Dick’s sporting goods walk-in either.

[TallGrass]

Ski reps on the amateur circuit used to show up with a truckload of skis. One brand, 3-4 models, 3-4 lengths, 100s of examples. Previously matched by weight, camber. So no l-r issues. Demos to try on the hill. When you find a model, length, they bring 20 sets from the truck. Measure you up. If you’re competing, your stance, movement is dialled in. Reflexive. Helps with fitting. Precision mounting follows. Not “good enough, customer won’t notice”.

Not a custom ski. But custom selected, trialled, fitted. Of the several made up this way for a skier, one will be special. Maybe the way the laminate cured was different? Once off the tour, there’s none of that unless you’ve been picked as the next Bode. Not custom, but not a Dick’s sporting goods walk-in either.

Where is the quote from?

I wonder what the results of another poll of how many here have seen, met, or been 'personally fitted' by a ski rep would be. Closest I've come is trying on some boots locally (family-owned, better), and the quick turn around at a rental shop (one where employees didn't know what 'last' was).

I've heard of demo days and demo trucks, just never have seen them 'in the wild', though some many resorts and shops will rent you whatever skis you'd like to 'demo.'

[bauerb]

my BMI is now 77. do I need new skis?

[Manney]

Where is the quote from?

I've heard of demo days and demo trucks, just never have seen them 'in the wild', though some many resorts and shops will rent you whatever skis you'd like to 'demo.'

It’s what is said in the back room when there is a screwup. They happen. A binding can hide a lot underneath it.

Big clubs, hills organize rep visits. Happens real early in the season. Sometimes before the snow falls. Reps show up for sales. Big hills get them there when replacing rental gear, bulk buys etc. Clubs can jump in if connected to a hill. Many are. Cooperative relationship. Sometimes the same exec. Sometimes takes the form of a fair. Tents, multiple reps, brands. One, two days. Blink and you miss it. Why? Reps are on a schedule. Other people, places to see.

[TallGrass]

Where is the quote from?

I've heard of demo days and demo trucks, just never have seen them 'in the wild', though some many resorts and shops will rent you whatever skis you'd like to 'demo.'

It’s what is said in the back room when there is a screwup. They happen. A binding can hide a lot underneath it.

Big clubs, hills organize rep visits. Happens real early in the season. Sometimes before the snow falls. Reps show up for sales. Big hills get them there when replacing rental gear, bulk buys etc. Clubs can jump in if connected to a hill. Many are. Cooperative relationship. Sometimes the same exec. Sometimes takes the form of a fair. Tents, multiple reps, brands. One, two days. Blink and you miss it. Why? Reps are on a schedule. Other people, places to see.

Ah yes, what goes on in the kitchen where the diners can neither see nor hear...

I'm neither a pro nor hardcore skier where it's a big part of my life, rather just for enrichment.

That said, I have run into reps in other fields with similar perks, feedbacks, contacts, schedules and so on. Sometimes I've run into the same ones months to years later and in different states, the whole "hey, look who's also here." Usually, the good ones, appreciate any objective feedback and suggestions you can offer, and may offer some backstory reasons why things are they way the are for things you mention to them.

[Manney]

I like value. If I buy new skis, bindings, I want to see them set up properly. Craigslist? Get what you get. 10 cents on the dollar makes it easier to look the other way. Doesn’t make the ski experience better, esp when something isn’t working out after you’ve travelled, bought a lift ticket. BC is different. Better because it can be free. Worse because you can get stranded a long way from the truck.

Just me. I don’t like thinking about gear after I buy it. Think at the front end, ski at the back end. It works or it doesn’t. If it does, good value.

[bauerb]

10 cents on the dollar maybe for vintage tourist gear. try looking on FB for used skimo or light AT gear. people want 90% of retail for their used stuff. I call it "aspirational pricing"