Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

[FourthCoast]

Once you put the skins on you've lost the perfect continuity between the flats, ups, and downhill.

FWIW I've had BD kicker skins for almost 30 years and only used them a few times. I mostly use kickwax and switch to scaled skis when temps are warm. The times I've used the skins were on overnighters where I took waxable skis and ran into warm snow conditions.

They would be good for climbing with a heavy pack, but then you don't need continuity between the ups and downs.

Al,

You are right, I have strayed from my 'near perfect continuity' goals. A waxless ski for wet snow or ice would probably be a better solution. This is not a good reason, but the fish scale ziiiiiiiiiiip sound really bothers me, so I am sticking with wax skis, for now.

I just tried out my ancient K2 skis with new nearly-full skins: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-race-roll

The snow is more consolidated now, but I am still sure this material is far superior. I was able to glide better on full mohair skins than on the X-Skin nylon kicker skins. No snow clumps at all. The glide is not anywhere near the same as wax, but, I feel like I can walk straight up a wall with these on my skis. I think these will stay in my pack for when I need to go up and I am doing nothing but back sliding on wax.

I hope the mohair X-skin I just ordered does the same thing for my MRs.

[Stephen]

@FourthCoast, I have sort of lost track of what you have, but I think it was:
1st - Nylon X-Skins
2nd - Roll your own Mohair from Skimo;
3rd - Mohair X-Skins

I have done all three. Again, others here have way more experience than I do.

I have waxed all the skins with BD Glop Stopper wax, ironed in, multiple coats.
Seems to help, but definitely does not make the skins waterproof.
Helps with glide.
I used Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide to make pretty much full length skins.
On the first outing I was VERY disappointed with glide. I had to walk downhill.
I waxed them some more and then skied them down a track. After a while the glide became much better and I am happy with climb and glide.
I have been thrilled with mohair X-Skins. This is on a 210 Gamme, so that probably helps with glide (excellent wax pocket clearance based on ski length to my weight — recommended for me would be 200cm).
Even when they have gotten wet, work pretty well, but did have some freezing issues with sun to shade sometimes.
Nylon X-Skins would be great for just climbing, but for mixed are very disappointing in the glide department.

I would try and find some dedicated skin wax (like Glop Stopper), just in case that makes any difference, vs using glide wax. Maybe it doesn’t matter, but can’t hurt.

PS. Looked at my notes and I used Swix Universal Glide Wax on the Pomocas. Still, just the name “Glop Stopper” inspires confidence!

Hope some of that is useful info.

[CwmRaider]

You are right, I have strayed from my 'near perfect continuity' goals. A waxless ski for wet snow or ice would probably be a better solution. This is not a good reason, but the fish scale ziiiiiiiiiiip sound really bothers me, so I am sticking with wax skis, for now.

I just tried out my ancient K2 skis with new nearly-full skins: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-race-roll

The snow is more consolidated now, but I am still sure this material is far superior. I was able to glide better on full mohair skins than on the X-Skin nylon kicker skins. No snow clumps at all. The glide is not anywhere near the same as wax, but, I feel like I can walk straight up a wall with these on my skis. I think these will stay in my pack for when I need to go up and I am doing nothing but back sliding on wax.

I hope the mohair X-skin I just ordered does the same thing for my MRs.

I'd like to recall this excellent thread by @Woodserson
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346&p=25877&hilit= ... ff0#p25877

Somewhere on page 9 I also shared my experience, glide of Mohair skins is very good, and comparable to scales (or maybe even better in some cases).
On VERY hard snow the attachment can push the front of the ski off the snow and make it skitterish, but mostly this is not an issue.
I bought a tube of klister following @fisheaters enthusiasm but the cost of beer in Norway is somewhat prohibitive for regular beer drinking when removing klister.

Cheers

[FourthCoast]

[...]
I have sort of lost track of what you have, but I think it was:
1st - Nylon X-Skins
2nd - Roll your own Mohair from Skimo;
3rd - Mohair X-Skins

I have done all three. Again, others here have way more experience than I do.

I have waxed all the skins with BD Glop Stopper wax, ironed in, multiple coats.
Seems to help, but definitely does not make the skins waterproof.
Helps with glide.
I used Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide to make pretty much full length skins.
On the first outing I was VERY disappointed with glide. I had to walk downhill.
I waxed them some more and then skied them down a track. After a while the glide became much better and I am happy with climb and glide.
I have been thrilled with mohair X-Skins. This is on a 210 Gamme, so that probably helps with glide (excellent wax pocket clearance based on ski length to my weight — recommended for me would be 200cm).
Even when they have gotten wet, work pretty well, but did have some freezing issues with sun to shade sometimes.
Nylon X-Skins would be great for just climbing, but for mixed are very disappointing in the glide department.

I would try and find some dedicated skin wax (like Glop Stopper), just in case that makes any difference, vs using glide wax. Maybe it doesn’t matter, but can’t hurt.

PS. Looked at my notes and I used Swix Universal Glide Wax on the Pomocas. Still, just the name “Glop Stopper” inspires confidence!

Hope some of that is useful info.

Stephen,

Thank you for the response.

I have #1 and #2 on your list. The mohair X-Skins are ordered, but I do not have them yet.

I have this giant chunk of glide wax so I am determined to use that. I have no idea if the Black Diamond wax is anything special, but I think their marketing team nailed it. Glop Stopper sounds like just what I need.

I added more wax to the nylon x-skins. My intention this time was to get them to soak up as much was as I possibly could. I pushed the glide wax hard into the skin repeatedly until there were clumps of wax on the skin, then I ironed this in with a warm iron. I did this four times (4 times!) on each skin before I gave up. I fully expect I could do this several more times. It seems like these nylon skins can hold a tremendous amount of wax. I will try them again if the XC track turns into ice. That would be difficult to ski with wax and, I hope, ice not will not cause Glops.

[FourthCoast]

I'd like to recall this excellent thread by @Woodserson
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346&p=25877&hilit= ... ff0#p25877

Somewhere on page 9 I also shared my experience, glide of Mohair skins is very good, and comparable to scales (or maybe even better in some cases).
On VERY hard snow the attachment can push the front of the ski off the snow and make it skitterish, but mostly this is not an issue.
I bought a tube of klister following @fisheaters enthusiasm but the cost of beer in Norway is somewhat prohibitive for regular beer drinking when removing klister.

Cheers

Thank you, Roelant.

I read through the thread linked in your post. That is an excellent write-up by Mr. Woods. I should have read that before buying any sort of skins.

I am not ready to try klister ... for now.

[fisheater]

You are right, I have strayed from my 'near perfect continuity' goals. A waxless ski for wet snow or ice would probably be a better solution. This is not a good reason, but the fish scale ziiiiiiiiiiip sound really bothers me, so I am sticking with wax skis, for now.

I just tried out my ancient K2 skis with new nearly-full skins: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-race-roll

The snow is more consolidated now, but I am still sure this material is far superior. I was able to glide better on full mohair skins than on the X-Skin nylon kicker skins. No snow clumps at all. The glide is not anywhere near the same as wax, but, I feel like I can walk straight up a wall with these on my skis. I think these will stay in my pack for when I need to go up and I am doing nothing but back sliding on wax.

I hope the mohair X-skin I just ordered does the same thing for my MRs.

I'd like to recall this excellent thread by @Woodserson
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346&p=25877&hilit= ... ff0#p25877

Somewhere on page 9 I also shared my experience, glide of Mohair skins is very good, and comparable to scales (or maybe even better in some cases).
On VERY hard snow the attachment can push the front of the ski off the snow and make it skitterish, but mostly this is not an issue.
I bought a tube of klister following @fisheaters enthusiasm but the cost of beer in Norway is somewhat prohibitive for regular beer drinking when removing klister.

Cheers

If beer is so cost prohibitive in Norway that it would impair regular beer consumption while removing klister I will need to rethink my overwhelming positive view of life in Norway!
However I can not force myself to believe such a thing. Instead I believe all the beer in Norway is nectar from the finest European brewmasters, and it is of course priced to be affordable to the working man.

[satanas]

Re "glide" with skins: This is IMHO an oxymoron. Yes, mohair mix skins are a bit less horrible than nylon, but they're all much draggier and snatchier than are pattern bases in my experience, especially on old snow or ice.

It's definitely worth hot waxing the skins (and skis!) to prevent balling up and, in theory, this might make them a little easier to slide forward. I note also that the BD kicker skins with the SS plate at the front are particularly problematic in firm, coarse conditions, and that snow often gets under the plate then builds up between the skin and the ski; wider ones are worse, and when this happens there is zero glide. The Fischer, Åsnes and other short skins which avoid this plate are way less hassle.

[FourthCoast]

As @lowangle al pointed out I am drifting away from my complete skiing goals somewhat. But all the natural snow melted anyway, so I might as well play with gear, because I think it is fun.

I got the grey mohair X-Skins the other day and I think I am going to wax them now. This article over on evo.com says that I should rub the wax in both directions, to get it under the plush: https://www.evo.com/guides/how-to-wax-b ... bing-skins

Does anyone think this is a bad idea?

[Woodserson]

As @lowangle al pointed out I am drifting away from my complete skiing goals somewhat. But all the natural snow melted anyway, so I might as well play with gear, because I think it is fun.

I got the grey mohair X-Skins the other day and I think I am going to wax them now. This article over on evo.com says that I should rub the wax in both directions, to get it under the plush: https://www.evo.com/guides/how-to-wax-b ... bing-skins

Does anyone think this is a bad idea?

That's what I do. I don't hot wax my skins.

In many, but not all, weirdo snow conditions you'll find excellent kick and glide with these mohairs. Especially on the more cambered skis. Trim as necessary.

[Stephen]

.
.
Does anyone think this is a bad idea?

I did that (both ways / against the nap) once, and thought I had made a horrible mistake.
Sounds like it’s ok to do, but I didn’t like how rough it made the skins, so wouldn’t do it, myself.
(The nap didn’t return to its original, smooth, pattern, some of the hairs were bent.)
It seems like multiple heavy applications, melted in, would have the same saturation results, and maintain the original grain (hair angle) of the skin material, which to me, seems like it would make the skins glide better.