Soft shell jackets for skiing

[snow-mark]

The OP stated this in the first sentence of the opening post:
".......... if anybody recommends a good, breathable, very packable soft shell for backcountry XCD skiing".

In the second sentence he makes this comment:
".......... not breathable enough, too heavy, way too bulky to be worth bringing on any trip".

then he goes on to say:
"I’d like one that is very light, very packable, VERY breathable........."

So his priorities have been repeatedly stated and are very clear, namely:

• very low weight

• very low bulk

• very breathable

To this he adds:
".....preferably with a hood, and with some ability to keep me dry when it’s snowing. Oh, and I wouldn’t want to spend more than $150 or so".

He then signs off by speculating that his expectations might be unrealistic.

His expectations are not unrealistic, but some of the suggestions offered have been far from the stated criteria. The answer is very simple: not a particular brand nor garment design, but the shell material itself - namely Pertex. A shell-garment (no insulation) made from Pertex is:

• very light

• very packable (i.e. has very low bulk)

• very breathable

The one that I personally use barely merits the description "jacket" - a "wind-shirt" would be more appropriate. Nonetheless it does have a hood, a full-length zip, and provides "some ability to keep me dry when it’s snowing" and, to crown it all, it cost considerably less than $150. So let's measure it against the stated criteria:

• very light: Check; it weighs 175g

• very packable: Check; about the same volume as an orange

• very breathable: Check; it passes the "lip test" - a membrane jacket does not.

The minimalistic hood protects the head and ears, but not the face - for that I use a balaclava which incorporates a neoprene membrane to protect the chin, cheeks and nose. In more extreme conditions the goggles come out. The material is not waterproof, but because it is extremely thin it dries very quickly from body warmth alone after a squall, although it is unsuitable for a prolonged downpour. It works best as an outer shell to garments which provide warmth when damp, namely fleece and wool. It should be clear also that a jacket with such minimal weight comes without bells and whistles. It has one zipped chest pocket - useful for stashing your mittens when you stop - but practically no other "features". It is a windproof and does a very good job of protecting the wearer from wind. I do most of my XC-skiing in the Norwegian mountains, and they have been known to get the odd bit of wind up there in winter.

The system can be made even more breathable by.............taking the jacket off! That might seem like a smart-ass thing to say, but if there's no wind, what do you need a jacket for? XC-skiing is a strenuous activity and you can quickly get warm (and sweaty-wet) even without a shell of Pertex , Goretex, or any other tex. My jacket has such minimal bulk that I don't even have to open the rucksack to stash it - it can be stuffed down inside the front of my fleece shirt until it's needed again.

Why don't I just state the brand/model/price/where purchased, etc.? Because 1) it was purchased more than 10 years ago and the particular model is no longer on the market, and 2) several manufacturers of outdoor clothing offer similar garments. Just look for Pertex, no insulation, and check the specifications for weight, hood, etc.

I would add that, although I'm extremely fussy about weight, I actually carry TWO jackets. The other one is a membrane smock (i.e. no full-length zip) and weighs 280g. I have almost never had to wear it in the mountains in winter, but have often been very glad to have it in the peripheral valleys where rain is more likely than higher up. Both jackets together bring a total of 455g on the scales - considerably lighter than some of the suggested solutions, so I have lightness, low bulk and can choose between windproof and very breathable or waterproof and clammy.

Robustness was not mentioned as a criterion, and Pertex is not robust. If you take a tumble on boilerplate you will have one or more holes in your Pertex shell. Also, if you're skiing in the forest don't go shaking hands with the trees. "Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer choice" - and if ye'r on a long tour, ya takes yer needle and thread with ya.

Apologies to those who were expecting me to say "buy xxx model, of xxx brand from xxx dealer for xxx dollars".

So much for my expert advice on Pertex windshirts/jackets. Now, who do I send the bill to?

Reply of the century! I like how you think. While I bought a very light softshell already, I am inclined to try a wind shirt like you describe snd will look for Pertex. I see OR offers one and I think the Patagonia Houdini might be similar (and this was already recommended earlier in the thread).

I tried the new softshell i bought on a short hike yesterday as part of a class I was in. It was blocking the wind sufficiently but we were barely moving, so I don’t know yet how it will perform when I start to generate real heat. Next week I’ll find out.

Thanks for the detailed recommendation. I will be looking for a Pertex jacket.

[snow-mark]

I think one thing all this discussion illustrates is that a lot of this comes down to the person and the conditions.
On one end, you could have someone who runs cold, is skiing in a dry climate, and skis at a moderate pace.
On the other end of the spectrum, you could have someone who runs hot, is skiing in humid conditions, and skis at a faster pace.
And, all the combinations in between.
The first is going to have very little problem with perspiration and breathability.
The later, much more so.
Which is going to influence preference, selection and recommendation.

Then there are the various fabrics.
There is the technical side*, and say the environmental(?) side to material selection equation.
*(Measurable weight, moisture absorption, waterproofness, air permeability, etc.)
I’m not going to argue any of those selection criteria.
But some is based on facts, and some on personal choice.
Whatever works for you is great.
Synthetics often seems like the easier choice — more mainstream, more options.
I do love my Icebreaker base layers, but even they rely on some synthetics, at least so far.

As for the slings and arrows, gee wiz, can’t we just leave all that to Fox and CNN?
Maybe count to 10 before hitting the “Submit” button.

I think you are right. I must run colder than most. Where i ski (Colorado Front Range, usually between 9,000-11,000 feet) it’s dry, very cold (typical 0-20 degree this time of year), windy as all get out (20-30 mph is a normal day), and I’m often out in the open (meadows, alpine). I have no problem wearing a gore tex hard shell while XCing/ascending much of the time in those conditions. It helps that my jacket has HUGE pit zips that run from near the elbow all the way down to the hem. Opening those zips in heavy wind creates a lot of ventilation. My selection criteria are meant to cover conditions that are not quite that severe, but still windy. When it’s 20 degree, sunny, and not windy, yeah, I’m wearing light wool and/or synthetic layers and the Gore Tex stays in my pack.

[lilcliffy]

So much for my expert advice on Pertex windshirts/jackets. Now, who do I send the bill to?

Curiosity- is "Pertex" a fabric or a brand name?
Quick search brought up this first:
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/ge ... WsQAvD_BwE
Is the "Pertex" fabric used in all of these examples the same?

[GrimSurfer]

So much for my expert advice on Pertex windshirts/jackets. Now, who do I send the bill to?

Curiosity- is "Pertex" a fabric or a brand name?
Quick search brought up this first:
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/ge ... WsQAvD_BwE
Is the "Pertex" fabric used in all of these examples the same?

Too much “blah, blah” at that link. Nowhere does it say what is actually *is*.

I find that funny and all too typical of manufacturers.

[bauerb]

took my Klim "breathable wind shirt" out skinning today. after 4k vert I can report that the shirt did everything I asked of it...which was nothing...I never took it out of my pack. but when I did take it from my pack, it was wet...from sweat through the ski clothes I was wearing, and then through my pack. so after "enough" testing, I have determined that the "breathable wind shirt" is useless if you wear it( you will be soaked in sweat)...and its equally useless if you don't wear it, it will still be soaked in sweat. I've told Klim that their $95 "breathable wind shirt" sucks, but they have not responded .
the layers of ski clothing I was actually wearing were doing their jobs by releasing moisture into the packed Klim shirt...maybe the role of "sponge" is the niche for Klim? or maybe their products only work if you are riding a snowmobile ?

[mca80]

Mcs, you could cut that duster down to just above knee height, get a chinstrap for your cowboy hat and get after it!

XC with the cowboy hat works just fine. Might blow off doing downhill on a windy day. That said, despite the fur being natural materials, Stetson has a nylon liner inside that obviously isn't breathable. Not a hat I want to wear except maybe in warmer sunny skiing above freezing.

[mca80]

@bauerb while my views on synthetics are pretty negative I want to play devil's advocate here: could it be that shirt held the moisture because it was in the pack and not in conditions where evaporation etc are likely to keep it drier? No idea, just hoping your purchase wasn't a total waste.

[Capercaillie]

the layers of ski clothing I was actually wearing were doing their jobs by releasing moisture into the packed Klim shirt...maybe the role of "sponge" is the niche for Klim? or maybe their products only work if you are riding a snowmobile ?

Sorry, I can't tell if your post is sarcasm or not. Why wear layers if you are sweating?

[bauerb]

yeah, I was being sarcastic because I got suckered into buying a $100 "breathable shirt". I sweat because I am not touring, I'm training for go-fast things. I'm already down to a base layer and stretchy top layer. not much else I can remove. I sometimes carry a wind layer for descents.

[timpete]

I do not claim to have read most of the replies to the OP question, but at a quick glance at many, many replies I was shocked I didn't see one obvious answer: cross country skiing / nordic jackets (the kind usually marketed as for "cold" conditions vs warmer or race conditions). They more or less exactly satisfy the requirements of being wind stopping in the front, while breathable enough to prevent sweat buildup, seems to me they are designed for basically the exact same requirement set. A XC jacket with a traditional shell to put over seems to me to work great for cold temp ascents. Some have hoods or high collars.

Look at Swix or Craft etc for representative options, going to run you $150-200.