Meidjo Release, Maybe, Maybe NOT

[Manney]

Backcountry Talk

https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... post122812

Interesting stuff here…

https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... post122813

[DG99]

So as not to confuse the innocent bystanders, Stephens boots were in walk mode, but his bindings were in ski mode when he got hurt. Skiing with boots in walk mode is common and shouldn't impact the releaseability of the binding.

Right. He just said the BOOT was in walk mode which may have contributed to the fall. IIRC. Some people like to ski with the boot in walk mode, most famously Dostie, I guess more fore aft flexibility is liked.

[Manney]

But when you read that in conjunction with the BCT thread… things start to make a bit more sense.

[lowangle al]

I didn't go back and reread any of those posts, but my impression was that Mannie was the only one confused, until he told everyone over there that Stephen was skiing in tour mode. Then Stephen had to correct you.

[Manney]

I posted exactly what Stephen wrote. Want to see it again, in larger easy to read font?

[Stephen]

I may have contributed to the situation by forgetting to switch my boots from walk to ski mode.
I know some people prefer walk mode for skiing, but think either way, the key thing is consistency.

This was what you wrote that led me to believe you were in walk mode… two statements. One on the mode… the other stating a common held belief that it doesn’t matter.

Agree. Lots of threads where ppl say stupid things often under the guise of some claim of experience. Some let it slide. Others attack ppl questioning the stupidity. Leads to a dumbing down of things to the point where people get hurt. That’s what may have got you to this point… years of banter by others who didn’t know what they were talking about… didn’t read instructions… think about things… understand.
[/quote]

@Manney you’re confusing the boots and bindings.
My boots were in walk mode. The only thing boot walk mode does is allow a small additional ROM.
My bindings were in ski mode.

I don’t think I wrote anything that confused anyone but you on that, but apologize if I did.

[Stephen]

@dg99 asked about torque / DIN testing for Meidjo.
I forget the link that @jtb pointed to, but below summarizes some testing.
If I was on Alpine bindings, I might be on DIN 6.
Apparent best case for Meidjos is maybe 9, or 50% too high for me.

The thread over on BC talk has a lot of info, but I'd highlight the first post that shows the force required for lateral release from Meidjo 3.0 is much higher than the suggested "DIN-equivalent" in the owner's manual. With the springbox at its lowest setting, the release force equates to roughly DIN 9. Anecdotally, others have observed that the snappier toes on Meidjo 3 seem to increase the force required for release over Meidjo 2, which has the same springbox (and same "DIN-equivalent" settings referenced in the manual) but a less snappy toe.

Meidjo release testing may be irrelevant here as the type of fall Stephen experienced is a worst-case scenario for 2-pin bindings, whether telemark or AT. That was the point of my post and the link to the skimo.co article. Slow twisting falls with rotation around the heel (the type that leads to spiral tib/fib fracture) generally do not initiate release from 2-pin bindings until forces are beyond the body's elasticity due to a lack of lateral release at the toe. This is much worse with toes locked out ("DIN 18 to 22" in Jeff Campbell's talk), but still true in ski mode as well.

[Manney]

No apology needed.

The ROM affects binding release. More pressure on toe, harder the pins engage. Not my idea… result of testing on BCT.

So… your binding didn’t release. We now know that M3.0 releasability higher than ppl may realize… compared to DIN (which we’re all familiar with). Binding in walk mode drives release point higher. So does boot, when in walking mode… due to downward pressure on toe, pins.

Lots going on. Big take always for me as I think about M3.0 in the future… tension low, binding, boot in ski mode when skiing. Only walk mode when touring. No exceptions. My tolerance for more injury low tho… having gone thru something similar… not fib, but acl, mcl.

Perfect storm is when tension is high, boot, binding in walk mode. To be avoided… no matter how good we think we are. Crud, clutter only raises possibility of catastrophe.

[DG99]

If I was on Alpine bindings, I might be on DIN 6.
Apparent best case for Meidjos is maybe 9, or 50% too high for me.

Rather disappointing!

So does boot, when in walking mode… due to downward pressure on toe, pins.

Hmm, not a big deal but I don’t think boot in walk mode increases the effective DIN.

[fisheater]

No apology needed.

The ROM affects binding release. More pressure on toe, harder the pins engage. Not my idea… result of testing on BCT.

So… your binding didn’t release. We now know that M3.0 releasability higher than ppl may realize… compared to DIN (which we’re all familiar with). Binding in walk mode drives release point higher. So does boot, when in walking mode… due to downward pressure on toe, pins.

Lots going on. Big take always for me as I think about M3.0 in the future… tension low, binding, boot in ski mode when skiing. Only walk mode when touring. No exceptions. My tolerance for more injury low tho… having gone thru something similar… not fib, but acl, mcl.

Perfect storm is when tension is high, boot, binding in walk mode. To be avoided… no matter how good we think we are. Crud, clutter only raises possibility of catastrophe.

No it does not. Lifting the heel, or the duckbutt affect release. Skiing with the boot in walk mode does not effect the mechanics of release. Now if you ended up being in the back seat because the boot cuff didn’t hold you forward, and the tail levered an ACL, or MCL and caused ligament damage, that could possibly be caused by skiing with a boot in tour mode. That is not we are talking about.
Now Manny, you made a comment about LAA being old, like that made his comments of less value. I’m a little older too. We talk straight.
I really think you grew up earning participation trophies. You seem to believe we should cheer your inane comments. It’s pretty obvious you are not an experienced Telemark skier. However you are pretty good with a search engine.
Might I suggest tennis? I don’t play tennis, and while I would miss your posts on the tennis forum, I think I’ll get through it just fine.