Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

TheMusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:17 pm

fledersau wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:08 pm

I allow myself to give my 2cents on this topic.
I'm just back from a 4 day trip on my XPlore setup (Rossignol XP12 boot on Ingstads) and while in generally i prefer XPlore for my tipe of sking compared to what i had last winter (NNN BC Rossignol X7 on Madshus Panoramas M62), i thought to myself quite often during this tour that the NNN BC setup was a little more comfortable to walk. i had the impression to roll my foot a little more which resulted in a more natural walking movement. I think aswell the point where you crush the ski when you have to is a little bit different.
But already after 6 full days of use, i feel that the sole of the boot is starting to give a really nice pivot point when walking and i think, after a few more days, it will be quite close to my soft NNN BC setup i had before (kick and glide wise) while being extremely better on the downhills.

Good input man! What sort of skiing do you do? In broad terms?

And by walking, I suppose you mean with skis on?

This jibes pretty well with what Lilcliffy has said about breaking in the shoes. And conversely, that nnn-bc tends to become very sloppy over time when they are just perfect out of the box (has happened to my Crispi Stetinds).

Cool to hear that not only Alpina but also Rossignol seemed to nail the bellow breaking point. Gonna be interesting to start getting reports on the other brands with respect to this (Fischer, Madshus, and for me personally especially Lundhags)

Thanks!
I have experience in all kinds of skiing, from Alpin Racing, Freeride and touring to now more telemark touring and inbound an with my Ingstads i'm normally in the woods around Québec or in Gaspesie, so trails, sometimes with trailbreaking in fresh snow and sometimes traced, moderate climbs (up to 15%) and downhills as much as possible, up to now i didn't had the chance to go down steeper than around 16%, which was really fun in deep, fluffy snow... But mostly undulating ground, lot of kick and glide with moderate pace (quick walking, with my skis on;-))
Yes, i'd really like to try other boots as well, i just had the chance to try a new Alfa skaget in a shop and while this boot was generally softer, i could clearly feel that the sole was stiffer than my slightly broke in XP12.

GrimSurfer wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:10 pm

mca80 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:57 pm

Re point two, there are some, even lots, who want to learn technique on simple old school gear.

Like the newest Asnes ski? LOL

I’m being a smart ass here, but I couldn’t count the number of rat traps mounted to the newest cutting edge skis if I tried. So I’m not sure how far the “roots” analogy carries.

I may even switch to nn and leathers and a cable, since I learned cables can generate power for my cabin.

I'm gettin a charge out of this.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:46 pm

I'm gettin a charge out of this.

Good one.

All this “physics talk” is giving me a “tension” headache…

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:46 pm

I'm gettin a charge out of this.

I question the physics of whether you can actually get a chargw from this.

GrimSurfer wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:50 pm

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:46 pm

I'm gettin a charge out of this.

Good one.

All this “physics talk” is giving me a “tension” headache…

The tension transmits a force to your ski dude.

mca80 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:52 pm

GrimSurfer wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:50 pm

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:46 pm

I'm gettin a charge out of this.

Good one.

All this “physics talk” is giving me a “tension” headache…

The tension transmits a force to your ski dude.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic ... 200#p56200

I've just realised that, after all these posts, no one seems to have read the title correctly. It states: "Xplore and the advantages of a STIFF STOLE for XC".

Who would want to steal a stiff for XC skiing, and what advantage could that possibly have for either the thief or the stiff itself? How would you react if you encountered a skiing stiff out in the woods? What advantage could an Xplore boot bring to someone who has already hung up all his boots for good?

TheMusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:22 am

No cables, no flexors, no helmets, no clothes.
I’m inspired, can’t lie.

If you ever need more "inspiration"...:
Here and here...

mca80 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:27 pm

Tempted to get some old woodies solely for the purpose of prepping them with torch and tar. Will put 3pin on them just for tradition and order Alico SM.

I do have a pair of 200cm 50yo Splitkein woodies mounted with XPLORE bindings... Freshly sanded and freshly tarred. They are the shit man. And lighter than any modern Asnes skis...

Nitram Tocrut wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:15 pm

Is it just me or I feel like this thread is about to derail even more from the OP question?
If TTalk was a train, there we would be so many train wreck!

Derailing into deeper philosophical dead ends can be healthy... If you know your way out...

TheMusher wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:26 pm

I’ll soon do an attempt to summarize what I’ve heard thus far. High level summary- the opinion seems split in two categories:

1) Rottefella nailed it with the Xplore
2) Xplore seems too stiff for my endeavors.

You forget a VERY important point, which is obviously an important opinion in here, and which I myself do not discard and which I did mention in my reviews:

3) The whole XPLORE craze is plain bullshit, it's just a commercial trap for rich boomers.

Free Johnny. Still digesting the fact that he is committed to combat gravitation with a free pivot..

VERY IMPORTANT:
It's not because something requires a little extra effort and extra finesse that it's less fun. Quite the opposite. Anything that you can do easily will never make you a better man.

Jurassien wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:18 pm

I've just realised that, after all these posts, no one seems to have read the title correctly. It states: "Xplore and the advantages of a STIFF STOLE for XC".

The lateral stiffness of the binding for nordic cross-country skiing. And that's it. That's what it's all about. This is 95% of what the whole XP thing is all about. The other 5% being the weight of the system, and that fucking crappy mechanism to pop the flexor out instead of fighting with a flat screwdriver.

...

Johnny wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:26 pm

You forget a VERY important point, which is obviously an important opinion in here, and which I myself do not discard and which I did mention in my reviews:

3) The whole XPLORE craze is plain bullshit, it's just a commercial trap for rich boomers.

That’s entirely possible… but anything that places the pivot as close to the toe as possible is generally a good thing (as you certainly know).

It is an issue of body mechanics. Walking or running forces are directed through the ball of the foot and maximum forward thrust occurs between the BoF and the toes. That’s why people missing their toes lose the ability to walk, run properly.

So a pivot point at the toe line makes sense for efficient locomotion. This also explains why @Johnny likes skiing without the medium flexor at times. Others might too, if they try it long enough to adapt.

It’s less of an issue for placing weight onto the skis, which is all directed through the BoF if balance is to be maintained during rapid weight and body movements . This is where sole flex still has a role to play. Removing the flexor might make that piece of skiing a bit more challenging.

Johnny wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:26 pm

Anything that you can do easily will never make you a better man.

Indeed.