What is the future of Telemark?

[MikeK]

Whatever Telemark means to you. Is it simply just a way of turning a ski? Or is it really its own entity that will survive and thrive in years to come?

Whenever I read about modern Telemark (the sport) I get very confused. There is all this focus and effort to make a method of skiing that, to me, only makes sense in terms of touring be as good in terms of edge control and carving ability as Alpine. If, and when, it ever reaches that point, does it continue to be Telemark?

A lot of what I read about Telemarkers on modern equipment are people who started long ago on inferior equipment and moved up incrementally as the technology progressed OR those that switched from Alpine because they became bored with it, or even something as simple as foot issues with Alpine boots. I read about that a fair deal actually. Or maybe I take note because it's the reason I quit Alpine.

I don't often, or maybe even ever read about someone who wants to start skiing and says, "Telemark! That's what I'll do!". It just doesn't seem to work that way for one reason or another. Obscurity. Difficulty. Inherent disadvantages to Alpine.

Fun is hard to quantify. And one persons fun is another's misery.

And our society has changed what fun is. Fun used to be skiing small hills with rope tows and climbing mountains with skis. Fun now is getting all the reward with zero effort.

So with AT becoming what it has, and what it is, and what it will be. How long, realistically, does Telemark survive?

Or is modern Telemark not the direction? Will Telemark, the turn, survive on, as many speculate, myself included, in the undeveloped hills, mountains, and gullies in the form of Nordic skiing? This silly thing some call XCD. Where using soft boots and inadequate bindings in deep snow forces you, in most cases, to use Telemark turns.

Or will all this fade away for the high tech world of AT? For the grasp of skating or gliding on groomed tracks and carving on piste? For the ease of skiing the few remaining glaciers by access of lift. No one can tell. But perhaps this forum is the one place where that spirit still lives.

[Johnny]

This forum is the one place where that spirit still lives.

^^^^

[mugglesport]

As perhaps this forum’s newest member, I have to wonder if I am the future of telemark. And I haven’t even been on free-heel skis yet. What a responsibility…

I came here not because I wanted to learn a turn or because I wanted to do heavy tele at resorts, but rather because I’m an alpine skier in the Midwest and am bored with our little hills. I was/am looking for ways to get into the Wisconsin backcountry (lots of heavily wooded, short, steep terrain). I actually first started looking at getting some AT boots and skins for my alpine skis. I quickly realized that would be overkill and just plain ridiculous for yo-yo laps on 100’ hills. I somehow ran across the term XCD late last season and even checked out Steve Barnett’s book from the library (though I didn’t really read it). With your help, I finally have ordered some equipment and can’t wait for the first dusting to fall to get out and explore.

As part of my research, I’ve been reading threads from the last several years both from this forum and TelemarkEast. Over at TE, someone (Pinnah I believe) asked the same question back in 2013 (around the Tele Tips meltdown?) and posited that the future is in the northeast on lighter gear for all the same reasons you mentioned, Mike. While his premise makes sense, I would argue that the geographical future can extend to the upper Midwest. Are there people here doing this sort of skiing (light tele backcountry)? I’m not sure. I believe so but it seems that Midwest skiers spend very very little time on the internet talking about skiing. Maybe they’re so old school they don’t believe the internet is an appropriate place to talk about leather boots and pins.

On the other hand, there is a growing heavy telemark scene here in Wisconsin, especially amongst teens and 20-somethings and with some interesting cross-over into the park scene. I think this is because they’re looking for a challenge and fixed-heel on a 200’ ski hill with a max pitch of 20 degrees gets boring very quickly. If you watch some of the Mount Bohemia TV YouTube videos (highly entertaining) you’ll notice a huge percentage (30-40% maybe) seem to be on heavy tele gear. Where are these guys on the internet? Newschoolers.com maybe (this completely scientific survey has determined that NewSchoolers believe telemark is mostly cool but a little gay). For the same reason, a lot of alpine skiers I know have learned to snowboard…just for the new challenge.

So there’s my completely uneducated hypothesis from the perspective of a newcomer…the future of telemark is A) in accessing backcountry for which AT gear is overkill and B) in giving people a new challenge when alpine skiing has gotten boring.

[MikeK]

Dave "Pinnah" Mann is a legend. To my small world, as iconic as Steve Barnett, if not more so.

Why? Simply put he laid out the base work for every bit of obscure Nordic skiing from track-set and skate XC to modern Telemark in a concise and easy to read manner with a ton of reference to equipment.

Some call him a Luddite, himself included, but really he was a visionary. He saw where Telemark and XC were headed and decided to light a torch in the dark of the void in between.

You could say Steve Barnett did the same. But his focus was not as broad and was more on the actual technique of skiing down hills with XC skis rather the entire recreational experience of skiing XC off-piste.

I don't necessarily agree with Pinnah's philosophy for starting out, and many don't agree with mine, but it seems the more I go with this, the more I gravitate to what he was always saying. The only difference is I think I'd advocate pushing the XC aspect a bit further with NNN-BC. Pins are great, but they aren't everything. If I ever got to NTN I'd probably say the same thing... if you are gonna go heavy, why not? But I'm not there and I don't know if I ever will be.

[GLB]

Coming back to skiing with more motivation than I have had in the past too many years. I look at the telemark technique as a skill set to negotiate certain snow/terrain conditions to turn with fore and aft stability. Also equally important imho are parallel skiing/turns, step turns, snow plow, and traverse with kick turns all put together to ski the BC. Like every other sports equipment there are advances to help do the work or technique for you and modern technology will continue to the point of taking the excitement out of the things we like to do for fun. I find myself wanting to do things the hard way to a point. This keeps me humbled and not get bored.

[lowangle al]

I think the future of tele is going to come from the Nordic xc crowd, and that seems to be dying also. The diagonal striders skiing off into the woods with wine and cheese have been gone for a while replaced by skate skiers having little interest in the bc. Better winters would help and better skis and boots will help also.

My advise to anyone who wants to be telemarking in the future is to find what you like now and buy enough to last for your lifetime.

[MikeK]

I'm actually not all too worried about gear running out.

The Norwegians and Italians seem to be far too invested in this type of skiing to let it simply die out. Although truly if the money goes, the equipment will. And I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure the Austrians are in it for the money and ski manufacturing tout, the same as Italians are with boots. I don't know much about the Norwegian culture, but I just can't see it dying out there. You may not love what they do, but I think equipment will always be made for their market which includes a high degree of mixed XC and DH.

As far as the more modern skis developing scales - that's definitely on the upswing - what is it really? Who cares? And as long as boots and bindings are available to keep your heel free (again maybe not the exact ones you want) there'll be skis to mount them on.

And really if you love plastic boots, I don't see that reverting. I'm thinking perhaps any development to 75mm will be very minimal. I don't think NNN-BC will go anywhere anytime soon. I don't think NTN will just die. Perhaps someday, someone will make it into the holy grail of what everyone chasing Telemark has been looking for. Or it will mainly remain a resort oddity for those who are bored or curious.

Eventually the Tele geezers are going to retire. It doesn't matter if they stayed true to their roots and skied on pins and leathers or if they are on Meidjos v2.6.8.8 release 22. What matters are the next generation and the direction they choose to go.

[lowangle al]

Nobody sells tele boots in Anchorage anymore, not even the Nordic ski / mountaineering shop. I'm afraid we will have to get our boots from Europe where the tele culture is a lot stronger.

There is a place for light xcd and I'll bet that a lot of people getting into xc skiing buy this type of gear from the begining because they want to ski off trail. It is a good sturdy set up to learn on and they won't snap like a pair of wooden Bonna 1800s on your first crash. I'm not saying they are only for beginers just for times that you want more xc than d in your ski.

The skis are getting better and probably making more conditions more skiable with the light boots. On the heavy end, skis like the vector and others are probably mounted AT more often than tele.

[connyro]

I guess I don't really care what other people do when recreating on the snow. I have little concern for the future of a specific type of skiing turn. I think that many people who embrace the telemark technique are simply interested in doing things in a way that makes them appear exclusive or special. Hell, look at the KTB and their little membership badges and blind loyalty to their dogma. That being said, telemark technique and modern equipment affords me what I perceive to be the best way to have fun in our unique terrain and on our unique snowpack.

[MikeK]

I joke around a lot about AT. I also do the same about smart phones. It's just my fucked up sense of humor.

I get it. I don't care if people ski Alpine. I was an Alpine skier for 18 years. I probably still would be if it hadn't been for one shitty pair of boots. I would have bought some AT gear if I hadn't have thought there was no way my wife was going to do that.

I also don't care if people ski the biggest plastic boots and most rigid bindings free-heel. I always gave a kick back to them when I first came into this because that's all I heard and I couldn't go onto a forum without hearing what an idiot I was for not buying a pair of Vectors and Switchbacks. And hell, maybe I am.

This is why I ask. Does Telemark (the turn) survive because of the dogmatic approach of the few? Or does it survive out of necessity?