Ski Dogs, Leathers, and Finally First Turns

[fisheater]

Winter finally arrived in SE Michigan last Sunday. I didn't get out but I did make some backyard loops last Sunday with the dog. I could go down seven houses before there was a fence. I knew the dog was hooked.
I finally made it to the trails today. We had 5" of fresh on top of about a foot from last Sunday. A lone snowshoer was kind enough to break trail. Last years wax and the remnants of Sunday's liquid F-4 proved to offer perfect glide on the s-112's today ( I do plan on mounting some other skis tomorrow).
Skiing in leather is sweet! It really is considerably more efficient for the kick and glide portion, but I was really impressed how easy it was to pressure the back ski without needing the cable. The boot flexes so nicely, that it is much easier to be strong on the back foot, with only pins. I really need that cable assist with my T-4's, but I was happy with the turns I made on "The Hill Where Sleds Go to Die". It is short, but steep at the top, and it has character. I did a couple of yo-yos, and continued on the trail. Ski Dog was very surprised as I blew past her on the downhill. She is very fast for a dog, and I am sure she was surprised for me to go faster than her.
So I am sure there are a lot of ski dogs out there. Here is mine, she is Bella the Vizsla.

[MikeK]

Last years wax and the remnants of Sunday's liquid F-4 proved to offer perfect glide on the s-112's today

Haha! This has been my wax formula so far this year... maybe tomorrow I'll actually fire up the iron.


Leathers are sooooooo nice when the conditions are right.

[StormyMonday]

Got the dog out in the yard today too, tried out my X-terrains with pins. Got enough turns to get me ready for more, but they say rain tomorrow booo

[mugglesport]

Nice! Things are getting decent here in Southern Wisconsin as well. Once the lake freezes over, there's a route I can take to work that incorporates a sledding hill. It'll probably be a perfect situation for easing into leathers with my S-98s.

[Cannatonic]

I love Viszlas, they're great dogs. Which leather boots are you using?

[fisheater]

Canna,
I am skiing on an Alico Ski March. Most of you guys will cringe, or chuckle, when I talk about how easy it is to stay centered with the ball of my foot on the back ski. I can't do that on my T-4's without the hardwire on my heel. The sole is also pretty torsionally strong, which suits me just fine. So what for most of you guys would be a heavy, stiff, boot, was very enjoyable for me. I could make the s-112's go faster than I can in the plastic boots, but I also made turns down a fairly steep grade.
I'm too old to be a (NNN) New Nordic Nerd, but maybe now that I am down to pins and leathers I'll be an old (NN) Nordic Nerd

[lilcliffy]

Great to hear that you are getting out man!

Love the dog pic- my sister has a Vizsla.

Cool to hear about your success with the Alico Ski March boots. I am considering them...I do not own a leather 75mm boot anymore...And as I consider certain skis where I might want "Telemark" power- I would also want the flexibility to put a leather boot on for more moderate skiing. For example- strongly considering something as wide and big as the Kom or Vector BC- but would still only want to use my T4s for very steep pursuits. In other words, if I invest in one of these downhill skis I would want the flexibility that comes with 75mm.

(This to me is the primary limitation of NNNBC- and I do feel that there is a limit to what you can do with it. Although I can imagine downhill skiing on NNNBC with a ski like the Objective- it is so light- I think that the Kom or the Vector are too much ski for anything that NNNBC has to offer. Despite that- if I am to get the most out of a big fat Nordic ski, I would want to be able to put leather XCD on it- as well as plastic Tele.)

Very good to hear about the Ski March boot indeed...It is a British sizing is it not? A size 8 is actually a US size 9 (42EU)?

And as far as the "New Nordic Nerd" club- I don't see why that has to be limited to those on NNN tech...

Being a "New Nordic Nerd"- to me- is about being "nerdy" (i.e. open, and passionate) about Nordic skiing- be it traditional and/or modern. Being interested in trying a boot like the Ski March is traditional and nerdy; putting it on a modern ski like the 112 is very nerdy- and very Nordic. Seems to fit the bill of "New Nordic Nerd" to me!

[MikeK]

Ski dogs are cool, but I'm disappointed there were no hot dogs

[MikeK]

Yeah Bob - to me for most of these skis, there probably isn't a hell of a lot of difference between leathers with NNN or 3 pin w/o cables and such.

I actually took a close look at my boots last night... The toe and last width is almost identical up to the pin line, down to about a 1mm between a NNN-BC and a 3 Pin. NNN-BC boots have a ton of material right where that bar is molded in, so that part of the boot is stout.

Neither offer much forward resistance other than what the boot itself provides with the pins.

I took some videos once and posted them on here but it's just as easy or not to keep the BOF on the ski with either - if you go too far forward on the pins, your BOF will lift right off too. You can just as easily go up on your toes with pins - it feels a little different because the hinge point is a little farther forward wrt the BOF on pins (that's what I can muster up about the mechanics and why it feels a bit different). I think that's why even when you are on your toes with either, it feels more like you are with NNN because the pivot is physically closer. Either way, I feel like when I'm that stretched out I'm not really skiing right anyway.

NNN has a pretty solid, stiff connection at the toe bar. Pins have a more flexible, but wider connection. The wings and the rails on each provide about the same level of steering/twisting leverage and without a cable to wedge the duckbill in the plate, there is about the same lash - it seems every pair of skis I have is a little different due to boot and binding tolerances. I don't notice them at all when I ski as I've loaded that all to one side or the other when I actually pressure the skis.

So long story short, if you are skiing with leather boots and sans cables, it's all about the same. Some boots are little more robust that others, but fit and feel are probably as important as anything else.

I tend to think that unless you go to something crazy like a double leather boot or the old internal/external plastic shell boots, that they are all going to fall short for the heavy skis. Even the big S Bounds feel wonky with a really soft 3 pin boot like the Alaska.

[fisheater]

Mike those are interesting perspectives, but I do have two questions. First would not the freer range of motion offer better K&G on an NNN binding? I cannot doubt the system turns skis, as I have seen the videos of our Quebecois friends, and the Whitegrass videos as well. The second question, could not the Norwegian welt lamination allow reasonable flex at the BOF, but offer torsional rigidity? I would imagine, combinations of materials could offer the same results in a molded sole as well. The one thing I am sure of is that I have really enjoyed my leather experience so far.
Lilcliffy, I wear a size 11 boot US sizing. I wear a 28.5 in my Scarpa T4, a 28.0 was too short. I could use an insole to take up a little volume, but I am happy with the fit. I have never had the T-4 in walk mode even for walking, however I find I ski in more comfort with the boot a little loose opposed to being a little tight. I have an 11 W Goretex insulated boot that I wear in the snow, I used wear to run beagles in when it was cold and snowy. That boot is too wide, but it was a Christmas gift from my wife. I just tighten the laces.
That brings me to the Ski March, they sent me a 10W. I was very concerned about it being too wide, but I have no issues with fit whatsoever. I have never had a wide boot ever fit me properly. This boot fits quite nicely with the stock felt insole. I really like the boot, I better find a source for replacement felt insoles