Cold Grip Wax on the Entire Base?

[lilcliffy]

So- I have spoken to- and read of- a number of people that use a very hard cold kick wax (e.g. Swix Polar) on the entire base of a wooden ski- and then apply the appropriate grip wax to the kick zone underfoot.

This is my understanding:
On warm snow, the very hard kick wax performs like a glide wax. On very cold snow, the entire base grips and glides.

Some questions:
1) Has anyone tried this on a p-tex base?
2) I am assuming the very cold wax is ironed into the entire base?
3) Do you apply a base binder to the entire base- or, would you on p-tex, as opposed to a pine-tarred wooden base?
4) Kick wax is more expensive than glide wax...Is it more expensive to do this than glide wax the tips/tails, and only apply grip wax to the kick zone?
5) How will the wax retention compare to ironed-in hard glide wax?

I am considering applying a very cold grip wax to the entire base of a sintered waxable XCD ski.

[bgregoire]

Hi Cliffy, It should only take 5 minutes to lather on. Nothings beats experiential learning, even telemarktalking can't beat that! You might not get what you want out of the wax but it will be a very insightful experience! I sometimes grip wax my entire XCD skis. When done right, I get more grip on the up than I can with scales and a better glide on the down as well...once I have gained sufficient speed to overcome its grippiness.

I've done multiday tours with wooden skis waxed as you've described, and in many ways, it is superior to glide waxed ptex, but not because it glides better, rather because it offer better grip on the entire ski once required.

I am under the impression that Polar wax was and is used on the tips mostly to protect the tar and the wood. I feel you will get better glide from the tar itself then wax.

From my experience, grip wax will mostly grip at recommended temperature or above (warmer) and mostly glide when snow temperature is colder that what it was designed for, so that is somewhat unlike what you (or your friends) have reported.

...so that's something to consider, grip wax will grip when properly pressured, but at higher speed or lower pressure, it will glide. polar wax (or other hard waxes) on the entire ski (ie glide areas) allows to use either quality when required. its a compromise thing but definitely interesting when you are out and about on longer treks, especially when hauling a backpack. If i'm going out for a few hours, I usually prefer going for speed and lightness, so then, I would not grip wax the gliding area, or use wooden skis for that matter, unless I'm having a wood-day.

I would not worry about ironing on or a base, polar wax itself is sometimes used as a base (in wax pocket of normal XC skis), bases are basically hard grips waxes as far as i know. Sure you can iron in, but, you don't need to.

[lilcliffy]

Great to hear from you Ben- and thank you for your thoughts!

I sometimes grip wax my entire XCD skis. When done right, I get more grip on the up than I can with scales and a better glide on the down as well...once I have gained sufficient speed to overcome its grippiness.

I regularly do this- to a greater or lesser extent. Most often I extend my grip wax forward onto the tip when I need extra climbing grip. This extension is onto the glide zone- on top of hard glide wax- and therefore wears off relatively quickly. But- I have never tried purposely grip waxing the entire base, as a foundation.

I am under the impression that Polar wax was and is used on the tips mostly to protect the tar and the wood. I feel you will get better glide from the tar itself then wax.

Cool- didn't know this.

From my experience, grip wax will mostly grip at recommended temperature or above (warmer) and mostly glide when snow temperature is colder that what it was designed for, so that is somewhat unlike what you (or your friends) have reported.

Hmmm. I must be a bit confused here...When my grip wax just won't do it- and I a continue to slip- I add a layer of softer wax.

...so that's something to consider, grip wax will grip when properly pressured, but at higher speed or lower pressure, it will glide. polar wax (or other hard waxes) on the entire ski (ie glide areas) allows to use either quality when required. its a compromise thing but definitely interesting when you are out and about on longer treks, especially when hauling a backpack. If i'm going out for a few hours, I usually prefer going for speed and lightness, so then, I would not grip wax the gliding area, or use wooden skis for that matter, unless I'm having a wood-day.

Cool- sounds like it is not worth trying for my day-to-day skiing. Extending the grip wax forwards generally gives me the extra grip I need- it certainly outperforms waxless scales- and, when the kick wax is just right, I don't even need the Easy-Skins- unless I am pulling/carrying weight. When the snow conditions are ideal for kick wax, I am finding that I am only using the Easy-Skins when I need to pull a heavy load.

[MikeK]

Yeah I'm a bit confused on what you are saying Ben...

I always seem to slip i.e. get more glide with a colder (harder wax) on warmer snow. It seems to me to act just like glide wax unless it is cold enough for it to work (I assume this means the snow has to be physically cold and hard enough to deform the wax).

I really do want to try that Rex Pine tar wax on the entire ski. I read it's supposed it's very much like a polar wax, so it kind of sounds like what you do when waxing the entire ski.

My main concern trying this is getting it off and going back to a hard wax should I want to. I'm assuming you'd have to abrade it down pretty good or strip the bases (that was my main question reading this)?

[bgregoire]

Yeah I'm a bit confused on what you are saying Ben...

I always seem to slip i.e. get more glide with a colder (harder wax) on warmer snow. It seems to me to act just like glide wax unless it is cold enough for it to work (I assume this means the snow has to be physically cold and hard enough to deform the wax).

I really do want to try that Rex Pine tar wax on the entire ski. I read it's supposed it's very much like a polar wax, so it kind of sounds like what you do when waxing the entire ski.

My main concern trying this is getting it off and going back to a hard wax should I want to. I'm assuming you'd have to abrade it down pretty good or strip the bases (that was my main question reading this)?

Hi again,

I am utterly confused about this wax discussion! Need to go skiing again.

M, don't worry bout cleaning up your skis after whatever glide, grip or klister wax you experiment with. Just get yourself some of the citrus oil ski base cleaner and a plastic scraper (toilet paper for klister). If you can't find that, paint thinner or white gas does the trick as well, use sparingly!