XCD and NNN BC newbie

[MartinF]

Hi all,

I'm 57 and a good alpine skier (and that willl probably remain my main focus), but I'm new to XCD and have already learnt a lot over the past few weeks from studying this board - especially from posts by lilcliffy, CIMA, MikeD and Johnny.

I live near Bonn, Germany, very close to a few low mountain ranges that get fairly infrequent snow nowadays... and my idea is to learn a technique that will afford some fun there when the right weather occurs (the snow will very rarely be deep). The terrain is mostly wooded, very few open descents - some steepish forestry trails being the widest downhills I can expect.

At 183cm of height and 75 kilos, I newly own two pairs of BC skis: the E99s in 200cm and the Salomon XADV 89 in 168cm (the latter purposely bought a little short in the hope - since fulfilled - to reverse the camber more easily). Bindings are NNN BC Magnum and the boots are Rossignol BCX 6. I also purchased some track XC skis, but I had no former XC experience prior to this month. (I live near an outlet that boasts ridiculously low prices towards the end of the season, so my total expenditure amounted to less than a single set of equipment would normally cost.)

Hints that have been especially helpful revolve around the idea that this is totally new equipment - spelling the need to abandon expectations of getting (any measure of) the accustomed support from shoes and bindings. Over the last few weeks of theoretical research (mostly here), I tuned myself to the idea that I wasn't going to control these skis in any way I had already experienced. Instead, I was going to discover them.

So that's what I did... yesterday in a nearby snowdome with a max gradient of 28%. And it worked surprisingly well! Using the Salomons for the first time, I was able to progress to short, linked parallel turns within an hour or less. I just kept reminding myself to seek totally new sensations and not to strive for the certainties I'm used to, not even for a very diluted version of them... and as time passed, the whole thing just about started to flow. Excitingly, I was already limiting myself to lines the width of the forestry trails I expect to ride outdoors.

So I'll be practicing some more on the indoor slope this summer and hoping to be moderately proficient when the right conditions crop up next winter. I'll be using the Salomons first, but also exploring the limits of the Fischer E99 (which I have already taken on a short, flattish tour in the actual back country... on the very last day the weather allowed).

My continuing motto will be to treat these skis as if they weren't related to alpine skis at all. Not even remotely. As far removed as a snowboard. Or like a fixed-gear urban bike compared to a trail MTB. Let new patterns emerge.

[lilcliffy]

Welcome, Martin!

I appreciate you taking the time to share your Nordic skiing story. Please keep posting and include us in your experiences.
Gareth

[Woodserson]

Hints that have been especially helpful revolve around the idea that this is totally new equipment - spelling the need to abandon expectations of getting (any measure of) the accustomed support from shoes and bindings. Over the last few weeks of theoretical research (mostly here), I tuned myself to the idea that I wasn't going to control these skis in any way I had already experienced. Instead, I was going to discover them.

I just kept reminding myself to seek totally new sensations and not to strive for the certainties I'm used to, not even for a very diluted version of them... and as time passed, the whole thing just about started to flow.

My continuing motto will be to treat these skis as if they weren't related to alpine skis at all. Not even remotely. As far removed as a snowboard. Or like a fixed-gear urban bike compared to a trail MTB. Let new patterns emerge.

You've got the right attitude by what your wrote above! Very awesome. I think the Salomon skis will be good to get your feet under you and used to the new sensations but the 99's will really bring you places. What year is your 99? Here are some sweet turns I made on my 99's this year-- 12cm of wet snow on top of hard snow on forest trails:

[MartinF]

You've got the right attitude by what your wrote above! Very awesome. I think the Salomon skis will be good to get your feet under you and used to the new sensations but the 99's will really bring you places. What year is your 99?

I'm not sure how old the 99s are - they're the only skis I bought used and a little wider (68mm tips) than the current model. Also, they're still labeled 'Europa 99' - but they don't appear to have seen much action and the camber seems pretty intact. I'd like to be able turn them as you do and will eventually probably figure it out - but for the time being, the Salomons make for an easier transition (and I can still find flattish plateaus for the E99s or ski them right outside my house when snow graces the area).

I'm skiing the Salomons with a lot of focus - but that focus is distinctly passive: concentration on discovering what the skis 'want' to do (and then influencing that as gently as possible). Being a passionate alpine carver, that element of waiting a split second for the skis to do their thing isn't totally new to me... whereas the outcome obviously isn't as predictable for me yet. From the outset, I knew I would be skiing with my feet, rather than with my boots. So for the time being, I have banned all thought of a slightly more supportive system (e.g. stiffer boots or 75mm bindings). I figured that seeking even the vaguest semblance of the equipment I'm used to would be the wrong way to embrace the radicality of the change.

Anyway, I have plenty of time to practice - with a snowdome about 90 minutes away by local train and open until 10pm every day of the year.

[lowangle al]

I'm skiing the Salomons with a lot of focus - but that focus is distinctly passive: concentration on discovering what the skis 'want' to do (and then influencing that as gently as possible). Being a passionate alpine carver, that element of waiting a split second for the skis to do their thing isn't totally new to me...
Anyway, I have plenty of time to practice - with a snowdome about 90 minutes away by local train and open until 10pm every day of the year.

This statement tells me you are on your way. A lot of beginners, including myself at one time , waste a lot of time trying to make the skis do something they are not capable of doing. The lighter the gear the more you have to be in sinc. It's more "riding" the skis than "driving".

What's a snowdome? I assume it's indoor skiing, but could you describe it for us.

[MartinF]

What's a snowdome? I assume it's indoor skiing, but could you describe it for us.

Yes, it's an indoor skiing resort with man-made snow. There are several in Germany with runs up to 640m long. Fairly close by, we also have one in Landgraaf near Maastricht (Netherlands). Ecologically, they're obviously a bit of sketchy idea. But they are useful for beginners/intermediates - or when you want to practice something specific.

[MartinF]

These pics gives you an idea (it's the one I went to on Thursday). In real life, it's slightly steeper than the photos might indicate, especially at the top. As a mountain-biker, I alreadly know my way around the slopes I mean to tour. Ability to handle the 28% gradient at the top of the indoor run will be quite sufficient for starters in the woods. The important thing will be to ski fairly narrow corridors.





This video (almost certainly known to you all) bears striking similarity to the terrain I can expect a lot of. Of course, on a bike I would be seeking out much narrower trails for descents - but many of my uphill itineraries look like this, and I think I could already ski down them fairly confidently using parallel turns and the short Salomons. Of course, I'd love to ride them in the elegant tele style demonstrated in the clip - but that's still a wee way off.

[Mountain Mitch]

I look at (non-Alpine) skiing in much the same way as biking.

X-country is close to road biking. You get in a rhythm and fly. Distance and pace are the governing issues. It is chiefly a cardio exercise but, unlike biking, gives you lots of upper body exercise too. Always working to beat that 10 km/h average on these hills!

Light back country skiing is similar to riding a hybrid or non-suspended mountain bike. I use my Salomon xAdv 89 s to get the dogs out in the nearby mountains. More or less rolling with some fun descents that let the dogs run fast to keep with me. I enjoy the incredibly light weight of the back country light set up and occasionally take them to much more rugged terrain than they were designed for. They handle it surprisingly well. Quite a few years ago I ripped out the bar on a pair of NNNBC boots while messing around in rougher spots and have always stuck to duckbills since. I prefer a light cable (Voile cable or Rottefella Chillis).

Big mountain tele gear is like downhill or all mountain biking on a fully suspended bike. A bit of effort to climb but a sweet ride down!

[MartinF]

Light back country skiing is similar to riding a hybrid or non-suspended mountain bike.

Yes, and in many cases when a heavy trail bike would be overkill, the thing killed is the fun. I see that a lot in the hills around my home - people riding with too much suspension and simply steamrolling the potential enjoyment, because the area lacks trails a skilled biker couldn't ride on a hardtail. I suspect XCD works the same way: Go for too much stability in your gear, and everything will be underwhelming (unless it's the Alps). Incidentally of course, an XC mountain-bike race course is plenty technical nowadays - showing that riding skill can go a long way.

[hrishi]

I look at (non-Alpine) skiing in much the same way as biking.

X-country is close to road biking. You get in a rhythm and fly. Distance and pace are the governing issues. It is chiefly a cardio exercise but, unlike biking, gives you lots of upper body exercise too. Always working to beat that 10 km/h average on these hills!

Light back country skiing is similar to riding a hybrid or non-suspended mountain bike. I use my Salomon xAdv 89 s to get the dogs out in the nearby mountains. More or less rolling with some fun descents that let the dogs run fast to keep with me. I enjoy the incredibly light weight of the back country light set up and occasionally take them to much more rugged terrain than they were designed for. They handle it surprisingly well. Quite a few years ago I ripped out the bar on a pair of NNNBC boots while messing around in rougher spots and have always stuck to duckbills since. I prefer a light cable (Voile cable or Rottefella Chillis).

Big mountain tele gear is like downhill or all mountain biking on a fully suspended bike. A bit of effort to climb but a sweet ride down!

Thanks for the comparison- I liked it a lot! As a beginner to skiing (but not to mountain biking), I too realized that XCD was closer to my favorite way of biking- cross country trails on my hardtail (basically going down at cruising, relaxed speeds without any adrenaline rush). In fact, since there is dearth of information on good ski trails in the XCD context, I have been skiing on some of the MTB trails (from https://www.mtbproject.com/) when there is enough snow.