Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

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FourthCoast
Posts: 153
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:23 pm

The daylight is getting shorter and I am starting to do crazy things like make offers on tele gear from craigslist. I wish I could go straight from summer to skiing.

Anyway. I have these Europa 99's setup for 75mm. I would like to use my Alpina Alaska's on these skis as well as 75mm boots.

Maybe I am crazy, but I want to mount NNN-BC Magnums on these skis with Binding Freedom inserts. It seems like maybe no one has done this, since the website does not have screw lengths for this binding.

Has anyone here mounted NNN-BC Magnums with Binding Freedom inserts? If so, can you please let me know what length screws I should order?

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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:04 pm

I went ahead and ordered a new set of NNN BC Magnums. I think I will measure the screws when they get here and try to order something appropriate from Binding Freedom.

Today I am going to try to condition / waterproof my Alaskas. I am attempting to follow what LiffCliffy (Or Johnny?) wrote here: http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 725#p20091.


So I am going to:

1. Take the laces off these boots
2. Get two towels soaking wet
3. Wrap each boot in a towel
4. Wait 2 hours
5. Use an soft, old, warn out toothbrush to apply the cream
6. Buff them with a cloth

If any of that sounds wrong to you, please let me know!
myAlaskas_10Sept21.png



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Stephen
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Favorite Skis: Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Stephen » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:27 pm

I’m a little reluctant to post this, rather than PM @FourthCoast, but what the heck…

I have been doing pretty much that.
My variations are:
- To put something heavy in the boots, and place them in a sink full of water to soak for maybe an hour (being sure to keep the water level below the point where it could overflow into the boot);
- I use a cheapie natural bristle paint brush, with the bristles cut short (still flexible, but stiff enough to move the waterproofing around), to work the waterproofing into the boots, leaving extra on the stitching and seams;
- I leave a generous amount of waterproofing on the boot;
- Once done, I place the boots in a pre-warmed, 90* oven, and leave the light on (this is where I might catch some flack, but I figure 90*, tested with an infrared thermometer, should be safe — once the boot is in the oven, there is no additional heating involved except for the lightbulb — keeping the boots away from the bulb), and leave them there overnight. The next morning, all the extra waterproofing has been absorbed by the leather;
- Then, I put on as much sock as will fit in the boot, I take boots out of the oven and put them on, and lace them up really tightly and walk around in them for a while.

I have no idea if all that is really worth it, but it works for me, and I think it gets more waterproofing into the leather and the last step helps the boot to conform to my foot (being warm and soft out of the oven).

The pictures came out in reverse order…
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ADFEC56B-FD04-46DB-8CAB-4A9381A6CC93.jpeg
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CFBC9BB0-81C0-4783-B660-F210F411469B.jpeg
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4D3F8964-DD5D-400B-A6C8-9778F6A0B0F3.jpeg



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Woodserson
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Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:12 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:23 pm


Has anyone here mounted NNN-BC Magnums with Binding Freedom inserts? If so, can you please let me know what length screws I should order?
Here's a pic with the inserts next to the stock screws. You'll need shorter screws than come with the bindings and take into account the conical end of the insert, so it won't go all the way. The screws fit in the binding screw holes. One feature of the NNN-BC is that the 2 primary screws under the flexor actually bite into the plastic of the binding as they drive down. The machine screws' diameter isn't wide enough for them to do that, so the screw will only contact with the metal dogbone at the top. Be sure to use the loc-tite, and the special stuff that doesn't dissolve plastic.
PXL_20210910_200311395.jpg



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Lo-Fi
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Lo-Fi » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:07 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:04 pm
I went ahead and ordered a new set of NNN BC Magnums. I think I will measure the screws when they get here and try to order something appropriate from Binding Freedom.

Today I am going to try to condition / waterproof my Alaskas. I am attempting to follow what LiffCliffy (Or Johnny?) wrote here: http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 725#p20091.


So I am going to:

1. Take the laces off these boots
2. Get two towels soaking wet
3. Wrap each boot in a towel
4. Wait 2 hours
5. Use an soft, old, warn out toothbrush to apply the cream
6. Buff them with a cloth

If any of that sounds wrong to you, please let me know!

myAlaskas_10Sept21.png

Sorry, I might have missed it, but have you already had problems with the water-proofness of the Alaskas or similar?

(For what it’s worth), I worked at an outdoor shop for years and we had access to manufacturers’ and their reps' info (including the good folks at Zamberlan and Hydrobloc). They stressed that in the case of after-market water-proofing of high quality footwear (which I think the Alaska qualifies as), it is sort of like trying to repaint the original factory finish of a car with a can of spray paint. In other words, the manufacturing process imbues the materials with the best finish they'll ever have so generally you should wait to apply waterproofing to your boots until the original waterproofing is fading.


I can go into more detail if you like, but basically, you might try the boots out for a while before applying the waterproofing products.
Last edited by Lo-Fi on Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Stephen
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am
Ski style: Aspirational
Favorite Skis: Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance
Occupation: Beyond

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Stephen » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:43 pm

@Lo-Fi makes a good point and distinction between new boots and re-treating used boots.
It might be better to wait to waterproof the boots, although I have the impression that many here have treated new boots.

It might do no harm to treat new boots, but if @Lo-Fi has more info on that, I would be curious to know…



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riel
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by riel » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:14 pm

Woodserson wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:12 pm
Here's a pic with the inserts next to the stock screws. You'll need shorter screws than come with the bindings and take into account the conical end of the insert, so it won't go all the way. The screws fit in the binding screw holes. One feature of the NNN-BC is that the 2 primary screws under the flexor actually bite into the plastic of the binding as they drive down. The machine screws' diameter isn't wide enough for them to do that, so the screw will only contact with the metal dogbone at the top. Be sure to use the loc-tite, and the special stuff that doesn't dissolve plastic.

PXL_20210910_200311395.jpg
You'll want to use vibratite, not loc-tite.

Loc-tite is bad for two reasons: it can damage plastic (including the binding and the ski), and it cures hard, meaning that if it comes loose, it will just be loose.

Vibratite cures soft, increasing the resistance it takes to turn the screw. That means even if the screw were to move a tiny little bit inside the vibratite (it doesn't typically do that), there would still be a large amount of friction remaining to keep it from turning further.



User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Sat Sep 11, 2021 8:04 am

riel wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:14 pm
Woodserson wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:12 pm
Here's a pic with the inserts next to the stock screws. You'll need shorter screws than come with the bindings and take into account the conical end of the insert, so it won't go all the way. The screws fit in the binding screw holes. One feature of the NNN-BC is that the 2 primary screws under the flexor actually bite into the plastic of the binding as they drive down. The machine screws' diameter isn't wide enough for them to do that, so the screw will only contact with the metal dogbone at the top. Be sure to use the loc-tite, and the special stuff that doesn't dissolve plastic.

PXL_20210910_200311395.jpg
You'll want to use vibratite, not loc-tite.

Loc-tite is bad for two reasons: it can damage plastic (including the binding and the ski), and it cures hard, meaning that if it comes loose, it will just be loose.

Vibratite cures soft, increasing the resistance it takes to turn the screw. That means even if the screw were to move a tiny little bit inside the vibratite (it doesn't typically do that), there would still be a large amount of friction remaining to keep it from turning further.
Yes that's what I meant in the last sentence, but it came out clumsy. Thanks for clearing it up.

(The dashing off quick replies while simultaneously accomplishing other tasks sometimes is not conducive to clear messaging. Monkey brains can't multitask... But they can create the illusion of multitasking. )



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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:25 am

Lo-Fi wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:07 pm
Sorry, I might have missed it, but have you already had problems with the water-proofness of the Alaskas or similar?

(For what it’s worth), I worked at an outdoor shop for years and we had access to manufacturers’ and their reps' info (including the good folks at Zamberlan and Hydrobloc). They stressed that in the case of after-market water-proofing of high quality footwear (which I think the Alaska qualifies as), it is sort of like trying to repaint the original factory finish of a car with a can of spray paint. In other words, the manufacturing process imbues the materials with the best finish they'll ever have so generally you should wait to apply waterproofing to your boots until the original waterproofing is fading.

I can go into more detail if you like, but basically, you might try the boots out for a while before applying the waterproofing products.
It seems I should have waited a little longer for a response. My Alaskas were new in the box and still had tags on them. They had never seen snow or water before.

So now I have a fresh coat of spray paint on my new car. Hopefully I didn't screw them up.

I think they look good with a coating of Hydrobloc. The surface is definitely more waxy and smooth than the way they came from the factory.
Last edited by FourthCoast on Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.



User avatar
FourthCoast
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:55 pm
Ski style: poser

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:29 am

Woodserson wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:12 pm
Here's a pic with the inserts next to the stock screws. You'll need shorter screws than come with the bindings and take into account the conical end of the insert, so it won't go all the way. The screws fit in the binding screw holes. One feature of the NNN-BC is that the 2 primary screws under the flexor actually bite into the plastic of the binding as they drive down. The machine screws' diameter isn't wide enough for them to do that, so the screw will only contact with the metal dogbone at the top. Be sure to use the loc-tite, and the special stuff that doesn't dissolve plastic.
Do you know what length and style of screws I should order from Binding Freedom? The NNN-BC Magnums appear to use three different length screws, each with a different type of head on the screw:
NNN-BC-Screws.PNG
https://rottefella.no/media/pdf-manuals ... try_LR.pdf



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