Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

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Woodserson
Posts: 2548
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:08 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:29 am


Do you know what length and style of screws I should order from Binding Freedom? The NNN-BC Magnums appear to use three different length screws, each with a different type of head on the screw:

NNN-BC-Screws.PNG
https://rottefella.no/media/pdf-manuals ... try_LR.pdf

You're going to want the Posi-Flatheads, especially under the flexor as they are lower profile and I bet they fit better. You could get away with a Lowhead in the nose, I think. Length wise you should follow their measurement recommendations (they measure low and flat differently) and figure it out once you get the binding and make your own decisions. I'm not going to risk giving you bad info without experimenting with it myself first. Also, don't use the Rottefella info for screws, it could be dated, screw length has changed (they have gotten shorter-- but mounting instructions still have drilling depths that are far too deep for new screws).

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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:34 pm

Woodserson wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:08 pm
You're going to want the Posi-Flatheads, especially under the flexor as they are lower profile and I bet they fit better. You could get away with a Lowhead in the nose, I think. Length wise you should follow their measurement recommendations (they measure low and flat differently) and figure it out once you get the binding and make your own decisions. I'm not going to risk giving you bad info without experimenting with it myself first. Also, don't use the Rottefella info for screws, it could be dated, screw length has changed (they have gotten shorter-- but mounting instructions still have drilling depths that are far too deep for new screws).
Thanks Woods,

I got the wrong impression. I thought that you had already done this and it was working. My binding should be delivered today. I will measure using the Binding Freedom instructions. It is good to know that low and flat are measured differently. I will look for that.



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Woodserson
Posts: 2548
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:56 am

FourthCoast wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:34 pm


Thanks Woods,

I got the wrong impression. I thought that you had already done this and it was working. My binding should be delivered today. I will measure using the Binding Freedom instructions. It is good to know that low and flat are measured differently. I will look for that.
I think this is a great idea, I've thought of it but never really needed to do it. Let us know how it works out.



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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:16 pm

Attached is a photo of my boots after I unnecessarily waterproofed them. I like the way they look. Using a cut-off natural bristle paint brush was a good suggestion, Stephen. I had a new one left over from some painting around the house. I suspect this worked much better than the old toothbrush I planned on using.

According to my measurements I am going to need one 10mm low head screw, two 20mm flat head screws and two 10mm flat head screws. I already have the 10mm low and flat heads, which is nice. So I ordered 25 of the 20mm flat head screws from Binding Freedoom.

The stock NNN-BC 'primary' screws are very different from the Binding Freedom screws or normal alpine binding screws. They have this wide section at the top that engages with something like 10mm of the binding. I think you explained this, Woods, but I did not really understand until I saw it in person.

I am wondering if I should try to find a stainless steel bushing to fill the gap between the Binding Freedom machine screw and the binding body. I don't understand why these special screws were used in the NNN-BC design. I am guessing it has something to do with how long these screws are, and the bending moment that they could experience during use.
spray_paint_on-new_car_17Sept21.jpg
pseudo_techncial_chicken_scratch_17Sept21.jpg



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Lo-Fi
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Lo-Fi » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:14 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:16 pm
Attached is a photo of my boots after I unnecessarily waterproofed them.
Stephen wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:43 pm
It might do no harm to treat new boots, but if @Lo-Fi has more info on that, I would be curious to know…

The boots look good! I don't think you've harmed them, just changed the original performance characteristics slightly.

The way the boots are built, with mixed materials and a number of seams and penetrations, the water-proofness is supposed to ultimately come from their internal "Alpitex" waterproof (and breathable?) membrane-liner-bootie.

Meanwhile, the lining materials are meant to repel, resist or wick moisture and maintain some breathability(vapour permeability).

The outside leather is there to give structure, durability, and water-proofness, or at least water- resistance, and hopefully also allow for some breathability. The inherently porous and breathable matrix of fibres that is the leather, is chemically treated to repel water, by creating non-polar surfaces that don't bond to water molecules so the water beads up into droplets that can roll off the surface or evaporate, while also maintaining its porous qualities letting water vapour get pushed to the outside of the boot by your body heat. In the long term, this factory applied chemical treatment will get contaminated and/or wear away with use. (Even in the short term, like a day tour, chemical treatment can eventually be overcome by constant water exposure and pressure and will "wet out").

By saturating the leather with the "wax" type Hydrobloc treatment, you've eclipsed the chemical treatment and the leather has been plugged up, reducing vapour permeability somewhat, but on the positive side, indeed, has made it more physically impenetrable to liquid moisture. This is something anyone would probably do eventually, anyway.



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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:22 am

I think I am all set for my light xcd setup. Really it is Stephen's setup since I bought both pairs of skis from him.

I am usually happy to ski old gear, but the NNN-BC bindings that were on the Europa 99s were a little too 1990s or early 2000s for me. Everything had to be neon back then, right?

Anyway, I now have new NNN-BC magnums mounted on binding freedom inserts and inserts in place to switch back to a 3-pin telemark binding if I want to. I think the inserts will work OK. I am not planning on skiing these very hard. The rubber bumper takes some force to insert and remove. I am a little concerned that eventually it will tear if I take it on and off to much.

The Anses MR skis are so very light. I am looking forward to trying those, and my Alaska boots. There are no inserts on these and I have no plans to add them.

I am a little disappointed that my new boots and new bindings have some 'rocker launch'. I expected the heel of the boot to sit on the ski. Also the new bindings take significantly more force to open and close compared to the bindings on the MR ski. Can someone tell me if these things are normal? (I attached a photo).
lite_04.jpg
lite_03.jpg
lite_02.jpg
lite_01.jpg



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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:19 pm

The Alpina Alaska boot definitely has a rockered outsole.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Stephen
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Stephen » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm

Looking good, man!
Happy I could contribute to your skiing enjoyment.

I can't think of any (bad) reason the new bindings would be stiffer -- it may be that they will soften up a bit with use.
I think those bindings come with a thin coat of grease on the friction points (not sure on this point -- can anyone confirm?) -- maybe that was missing?
As long as it doesn't seem like you're going to break anything when you close them, probably ok.

As for the boots, I wouldn't worry about it. The amount of force necessary to overcome the boot rocker should be negligible when compared to body weight. I bet you wouldn't even be able to notice it.

To me, the rocker seems logical: the boot is made in such a way that its natural position is in between the two extremes of the boot's ROM. That would put less stress on the boot by limiting the amount it has to stretch in either the up or down direction.
Hope that makes sense.



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FourthCoast
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:01 pm

I guess I was not done buying stuff. I got a pair of Nylon X-Skins for my MR skis. I think I will use these when the snow is warm and grip wax is difficult or impossible to use.

I know nylon absorbs water. I imagine getting the skins wet and then having them freeze would probably cause a number of problems.

Should I wax these new skins now, or wait until after I have used them some? I am also not sure if I should use glide wax, polar or maybe even the waterproofing wax I used on my boots.

Any suggestions?
nylonSkins.png



User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2548
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:07 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:01 pm
I guess I was not done buying stuff. I got a pair of Nylon X-Skins for my MR skis. I think I will use these when the snow is warm and grip wax is difficult or impossible to use.

I know nylon absorbs water. I imagine getting the skins wet and then having them freeze would probably cause a number of problems.

Should I wax these new skins now, or wait until after I have used them some? I am also not sure if I should use glide wax, polar or maybe even the waterproofing wax I used on my boots.

Any suggestions?
Mohair is usually the issue with getting soaked through, nylons are for use in super wet. Def wax them up the nylon skins are very grippy. They make "skin waxes" but you can use a soft glide wax too. Not polar, not waterproofing wax.

Get some mohairs while you're at it. Seriously



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