Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

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Woodserson
Posts: 2239
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:36 pm

Remind us what skis.

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FourthCoast
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:55 pm
Ski style: poser

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:01 pm

Woods,

I have K2 Heli Stinx with the same topsheet graphics as the attached image. These are old well-used skis. I find them very fun and easy to ski going downhill on all sorts of snow conditions. I hope you don't tell me that I need different skis!
k2_HeliStinx.jpeg





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lowangle al
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Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by lowangle al » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:47 pm

FourthCoast wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:47 am
The lake effect snow machine finally got started up here and has been consistently dropping light fluffy stuff the last week or so. For those of you in the mountains or up in the UP of Michigan this might not seem like a big deal but we have something close to 24" of fluffy snow all the way to the bottom right now.

Anyway... This is deep soft snow for me. Getting up to speed and trying to make some soft snow telemark turns is a lot of fun. It is so smooth and effortless. Very different from the sheets of ice I skied when alpine racing. I also have to keep reminding myself that I can't cross block trees like slalom gates.

But holy crap it is really hard to climb back up out of this stuff. Even on a moderate slope I could not get the kick wax to give me enough traction to move myself up or even sideways. The ski tip would be up on top of the snow and the tail near the bottom. Before I could get any weight on it I would slip backwards and lose progress. It was also too deep to herringbone up the hill because my tips would get quickly burred and I could not lift the ski. The only way I managed to get back up the hill was a very slow side step up. Even then I would lose about half the progress of each step from the snow packing and sliding.

When I made it back to the trail, climbing on packed snow with maybe 3" of fluff on top felt effortless, by comparison.

Is there any technique to make this less exhausting or am I just out of shape and need to build endurance?
A couple of other things. Sometimes in deep unconsolidated you may need to kick wax the entire bottom of your ski. I wouldn't want to do it with a soft wax though. When sidestepping, like I said earlier, place your ski back on the snow level. this should eliminate your tails sinking so much.

Another thing is that the snow may be deep and fluffy to climb without skins, but will be very doable givin a few days to settle. It may also ski better especially if you're lacking steepness.





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Roelant
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 am
Location: Subarctic Scandinavian Taiga
Ski style: Backcountry in the wild, cross country on trails
Favorite Skis: Nansen, FT62, Combat NATO
Favorite boots: Crispi Bre, Scarpa T4
Occupation: Ion Counter

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Roelant » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:46 pm

In those conditions technique or full length waxing can help, however I just use full length skins when that happens and the climb is long enough to make it worthwhile





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Woodserson
Posts: 2239
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by Woodserson » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 pm

Yeah, what these two above me said. Perfect.





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bornaginalpiner
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by bornaginalpiner » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:51 am

Woodserson wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 pm
Yeah, what these two above me said. Perfect.
Just so it isn't overlooked, it's important to not pick a steep approach when climbing. We tackle those steeper inclines using a switchback approach. Instead of going straight up, traverse at a lower angle in one direction to the left or right and then reverse your direction using a kick step. This way you create a much easier track to ascend.

The best of us can't get up a steep enough slope with kick wax. Don't lose heart. Solutions exist.





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FourthCoast
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:55 pm
Ski style: poser

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:06 pm

Thanks everyone for the ideas.

It was about 12 F outside. I had just stripped the wax on my skis the day before. I had two layers of Swix Polar hotwaxed on the base. I then put one layer of Swix Green on the entire ski. I am still new (2 years experience?) to kick waxing but I think this was the best grip I could get without clumping. The green wax on the whole ski was working very well as long as there was something solid to stand on.

I think the big take away is that I need to look for a good line down and a good line back up before I get off the trail. I was focused on finding something that I was sure I could get down safely. I did not spend too much time thinking about how I would get back up until I was already at the bottom.

It seems like I was at least trying all the right things. I was side stepping and trying to traverse at an angle to the fall line. I did kick turns to switch back and forth. I have a new appreciation for the kick turn. It saves a lot of energy when changing direction uphill in soft snow.





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FourthCoast
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:55 pm
Ski style: poser

Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by FourthCoast » Tue May 11, 2021 1:37 pm

I am optimistic about doing some resort skiing again this coming winter 2021 to 2022. Hopefully things will be normal-ish enough for us to take a trip and ski for week or two.

I think it is time for me to get a new ski for the groomers. I will be using my vintage T2's and Riva II bindings on them. I think I want the most downhill oriented ski available that has a wax pocket. Having a wax pocket on my (also vintage) Europa 99s was a real eye-opener. I would like to be able to kick around at the ski area on the flats and slight up hills and make some carved GS turns on the way down.

It seems like the 'Falketind 62' is what I want if I can find one.

Does this sound like what I am looking for? Any other suggestions?





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lowangle al
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by lowangle al » Tue May 11, 2021 6:17 pm

I want a Rabb 68 for turn oriented touring. I like that width with either plastic or leather boots and I would think it is a little more stable than the smaller F62.

As far as skis with a wax pocket, every single single camber DH ski I've ever put kick wax on worked fine. They were traditional camber, some were stiff and some were soft, but they all held wax for more than one day and didn't drag unless I screwed up on my wax choice.





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greatgt
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Re: Complete skiing. Near perfect continuity between flats, uphills and downhills.

Post by greatgt » Thu May 20, 2021 9:22 am

Poles....Don;t use the wrist strap and then use the poles at any length you want....Way back had to many close calls with the basket getting caught.....Alpine skis will almost always be better at Alpine areas....But if you want to push cc skis to a different level they will give you a wild ride at an Alpine area.....If you want to catch air.....slip across Brookes...go up hills....have tons of speed.....leave wax (bones) pockets ...so they don't reduce speed.....go with camber....Your turns will not be the same as an Alpine Telemark turn....Your journey is beginning....but....it's wicked rewarding....TM





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