Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Post Reply
User avatar
joeatomictoad
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Location: Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
Occupation: Professional Bird Counter, specializing in birds located in hands & bushes

Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by joeatomictoad » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:04 pm

I would have thought the mounting mark on the boot sole (looks to be a figure eight) to be much closer to the bellows, but actually is quite a bit aft of the bellows.

I make no claims of expertise, but wouldn't this put the center of force of the uphill ski during a tele turn (under the bellows) quite a bit forward on the ski? As such, could make uphill ski tip dive in powder?

All suggestions / considerations appreciated.
Screen Shot 2020-09-20 at 13.24.56.png

User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2225
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by Woodserson » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:00 pm

joeatomictoad wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:04 pm
I would have thought the mounting mark on the boot sole (looks to be a figure eight) to be much closer to the bellows, but actually is quite a bit aft of the bellows.

I make no claims of expertise, but wouldn't this put the center of force of the uphill ski during a tele turn (under the bellows) quite a bit forward on the ski? As such, could make uphill ski tip dive in powder?

All suggestions / considerations appreciated.

Screen Shot 2020-09-20 at 13.24.56.png
It's a mid-sole length marker... Or thereabout depending on how different companies calculate midsole length.

And you are kind of on the right track but I would argue only for people with really big feet. Otherwise, what's the difference when you're fixed heel and pressuring up the cuff? All the power is going to to the toe. I have 30.5/31 shell size and I mount mine 1 or 2cm back depending on rocker profile to put my big clown foot more into an average situation. If you're smaller, I'd say the difference is minimal or depends on personal preference.





User avatar
joeatomictoad
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Location: Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
Occupation: Professional Bird Counter, specializing in birds located in hands & bushes

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by joeatomictoad » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:53 pm

... to put my big clown foot more into an average situation.
@Woodserson ,
Quit clowning around. But thanks for the mini-lesson in boot marking nomenclature.

I am only resort skiing downhill, using alpine grade skis. Not looking to engage any kick wax, or any of that. Not looking to earn any turns in the foreseeable future. I merely want my tips feeling “carvy” and my tails feeling “snappy”.

Still, though, I guess I could understand the importance of marking the midsole. To me, when doing a tele turn, I put far more force on the baby toe of my uphill boot than I do on the big toe of my downhill boot...so, with my limited experience, to me it seems that the bellows would be more important to mark on a tele boot than the midsole

Maybe this is just inherited from leather 75-mm boots, which do not have bellows? Maybe most people aren’t driving their uphill ski as much as I do? Maybe this topic has been discussed ad naseum, and I’m too much of a noob to appreciate archived discussions?

Either way, I am mounting Vice bindings to be used with 27.5 MP T1’s, and I don’t have the luxury of dialing it in with cycles of remounting, retesting, remounting..., based on my location. (Although, I would if I could.) Trying to get it right the first time around, so I appreciate the technicalities / analytics for this type of discussion.





User avatar
Woodserson
Posts: 2225
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by Woodserson » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:04 pm

Unfortunately this thread isn't going to get much traction in the "Wiki" but I will say 90% of everyone here will tell you to mount boot-midsole to midsole mark on the ski.

How much do you weigh, how long the skis, and remind us where you ski again?





User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by fisheater » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:55 pm

For mounting a ski with Vice binding, and a T-1 boot I believe boot center to the boot center mark on the ski is a good starting point. The first thing to start thinking about is the fact even with a T-1 and a Vice, you will never pressure the front of the ski like it would be with alpine boots/bindings. The ski must be softer in flex. The next thing I would look at is rocker. How far back does rocker bring the effective edge? In conjunction with rocker I look at where is the most narrow part of the ski? Where that boot center mark places me into relationship with that narrow part of the ski?. My reasoning for looking at those two items in concert with each other was something I dealt with mounting another ski with generous rocker. In a nutshell the side cut narrowed far enough back to allow me to put ball of foot at the narrowest part of the ski. It gave me a longer effective edge in front. If the snow is hard, rocker ain’t planing that ski, you need to ride the center. You can definitely still go over the bars with T-1’s and Vice bindings. Bottom line is that I did a lot of agonizing over that mount, 3.5 mm back from boot center to center mark on ski. Guess what? Six months later the ski manufacturer recommended that mount for Tele, which happened to be pins on balance point.
I believe my thought process was quite relevant regardless of balance point. Although in all honesty BP was a big factor in justifying those thoughts. That particular ski was mounted 3 pin Hardwire for T-4 boots. Not quite the same use you’re planning, but again, I believe that it certainly would not hurt to take those relationships into consideration.





User avatar
joeatomictoad
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Location: Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
Occupation: Professional Bird Counter, specializing in birds located in hands & bushes

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by joeatomictoad » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:14 pm

How much do you weigh, how long the skis, and remind us where you ski again?
@Woodserson
  • 160 lbs., with winter blubber; and
  • Nordica Enforcer 93, @ 177-cm; and
  • Scarpa T1, 27.5 MP; connected with
  • 22D Vice traps; and
  • Ski mountains all over USA, 99% lift-serviced
    • Colorado & Utah mostly; and
    • Lake Tahoe area occasionally; and
    • New England: Berkshire & Green mountains (night ski Conn., Western Mass., Vermont)
Current rig is Karhu Ruckit (74-mm waist) with Hammerhead traps.
I may leave skinny skis in New England set up for tele, and that would be my East Coast rig.





User avatar
joeatomictoad
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm
Location: Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
Occupation: Professional Bird Counter, specializing in birds located in hands & bushes

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by joeatomictoad » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:21 pm

@fisheater
Come on down to Texas and help with my skis? I’ll hook you up with a fish fry and a brew.
Glad to hear ski mfgr following your trend; you should make it a side hustle!





User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by phoenix » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:52 pm

"to me it seems that the bellows would be more important to mark on a tele boot than the midsole"

Correct. A tele rig does not exert the same force and pressure as an alpine rig. Long story short (I've written long posts regarding this in archived threads), I firmly believe that you would be much better off using the ball of your foot location (similar to bellows, as you have suggested) on ski's mounting line than the midsole mark. This is offered with an understanding of your intended use, what you're looking for in performance, and your gear.

I just don't have the energy to wax eloquent on this right now, but I'm happy to answer questions if you like.





User avatar
bauerb
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:37 am

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by bauerb » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:53 pm

my only experience on the subject is ancient history and was for mounting XC racing skis. we'd use a straight edge to find the balance point of the ski, and that is where the front most screw would go for the binding....I think I'm remembering that sort of correctly. btw, we would also find the kick-wax zone by putting shifting our weight to one ski and sliding a piece of paper underneath to see where it stopped moving....hope these old fashioned "tips" don't cause too much confusion....BTW, I've got other tips that involve klyster, blow torches and pine-tar if anyone needs them





User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Scarpa T1 mounting mark on boot sole

Post by phoenix » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:32 pm

Bauerb, you are sort of correct about the balance point mount... but it's the pin line (or bar line for NNN) that goes on the balance point on XC skis, rather than the front screw.





Post Reply