Best way to learn during COVID?

[esnichols1]

Hi Everyone,

First post here and very thankful for this forum. Some great resources on here.

I'm looking for tips, like your favorite online videos, on how to learn how to XC ski without taking a lesson. Any normal year and I totally would sign up for a lesson, but my wife and I are very high risk and our county (Summit County Colorado) is experiencing a surge. We're not comfortable spending extended periods of time with a teacher, even if it is outside.

My wife grew up XC skiing on the east coast but it's been decades since she did it. I'm an advanced snowboarder and can also ski downhill. I've noodled on XC skis before and can stand up, move around a little, but my form is non-existent. I've watched some YouTube videos that were just OK. Not enough to learn from. We have family that XC Ski and they gave us gear advice, but they are too far to teach us.

Any tips for videos or other resources online to make the process a bit easier?

Also, we are getting skis that lean more to groomed runs, and fortunately we have a lot of those in the area that aren't crowded. I did consider BC friendly gear as we live right next to national forest with mellow rolling hills, but that seemed intimidating for novices. Open to thoughts here as well.

Thanks!
Eric

[lowangle al]

Welcome to the forum. If your wife grew up xc skiing, assuming she knew what she was doing, I think it should all come back to her. Like riding a bike I don't think you forget how. At any rate just go have fun.

[CwmRaider]

I work for an applied science institution in Trondheim, and I see temporary colleagues who are often foreign nationals, learning to XC ski as adults all the time. My main tips are to start on the flattest tracks in your area, and don't overestimate your abilities when renting or shopping for gear, so rent some waxless XC skis for the beginning (or buy used if cheap enough).
Advanced level XC track gear requires a lot of technical skill to be used effectively.
Also be aware that XC gear should be bought according to your weight.

BC could be a more relaxed approach as long as you take it easy and don't ski up hills you don't know how to ski down! Zigzagging down with kick turns at the end works in a pinch as long as the tree cover isn't too dense.

[Tom M]

Here are a few links for XC skiing on groomed trails. You are about to begin an amazing journey. Welcome!!!

[Montana St Alum]

I've noodled on XC skis before and can stand up, move around a little, but my form is non-existent.

I think you're overqualified!

Yeah, just go out and have fun. This isn't rocket surgery.

[lilcliffy]

WELCOME!

Those videos that Tom posted look pretty good- I haven't watched them.

What are the typical snow and mid-winter temperatures like where you are going to be skiing?

Roelant's points regarding performance-oriented track skis and sizing skis to your weight are important.

I am NOTHING of an expert on XC track equipment and performance. I have been a Nordic skier for decades (some 45 years)- with a focus on touring- especially backcountry touring- wherever I have lived in Canada. Despite having been in a number of long distance races over the years- I have never been a competitive XC skier. Currently I keep a set of Classic XC touring skis at my office in town for getting out for a quick ski during the weekday workweek.

I have tested lots of different equipment over the years. I personally classify track Classic XC gear in the following categories:
- race
- performance
- touring

Touring skis are what you want as a beginner XC skier. They are stiff and cambered enough to be able to enjoy Classic kick & glide skiing on the track- but the camber and resistance underfoot is mellow enough that they are easy to pressure and get grip; they are mellow and allow you to move along at relaxed pace (racing and performance skis only want to go fast!!!), and you can weight them easily and feel more stable coming down hills.

The biggest frustration- and exhaustion- I have seen in XC skiers comes from slipping and sliding and not getting enough grip. An efficient track XC ski should be sized so that when you stand on them evenly weighted, the "kick zone" underfoot is not in contact with the snow/track. A mellow touring ski that is sized properly will be easy to compress underfoot and get grip. (Performance and racing skis require expert kick & glide technique and perfectly tuned traction underfoot).

I would still try and make sure that you do have a ski that is properly sized to your weight. If the ski is too small/short for your weight then there will be no "wax pocket" underfoot and you will completely squash the camber underfoot with the skis equally weighted (this is fine on fresh soft snow, but very slow and boring on a groomed track!)

So the ski- a "touring ski" that is properly sized- with mellow camber-stiffness underfoot that is easy to compress underfoot.

Grip. GRIP. Grip is a big deal. You need enough grip to be able to push off and glide and you need enough grip to not be slipping and sliding all over the place.

I know it seems intimidating- but I would SERIOUSLY consider grip-kick wax. I have NEVER tried a waxless-scaled Classic XC track ski that had enough grip on a groomed track (unless the snow is warm and wet). If you are simply touring you do not need the racer's arsenal of grip-kick waxes and applied science and technology!

I grip wax the entire base of my Classic XC track touring skis. I love them- they are grippy, smooth and perfectly fast enough for me! (I regularly blow past other skiers that are fiddling with their wax recipe that is intended to serve racing- not touring!)

I also have embraced klister on the track- it is pure magic and easy to get off with heat and paper towel!

If you really want to avoid grip wax- or the snow and temperatures are "hard" to wax for- then I would get a track touring ski with a permanent kicker skin embedded in the kick zone.

I do not recommend waxless-scaled XC skis for a groomed track. To get enough grip- especially as beginner- you will need a very short, very slow ski (BORING and frustrating) and even then they will not grip on icy, refrozen snow, and they will be miserably slow on very cold dry snow. YUCK. Plus- who the hell wants to listen to constant "zzzzzzzzing" of scales on the track while you are out to enjoy the peace of the outdoors?!?!

My advice:
- grip wax touring ski
or
- skin touring ski

Please keep telling your Nordic touring story!
There are loads of would-be Nordic skiers that will benefit from your story!
(And I will love the updates!)

[esnichols1]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for your support and advice! This is really inspiring and certainly has us wanting to get out there!

@Tom M I've found your youtube channel helpful as well!

Bit tempted to try learning with BC skis on the flat fields (and eventually gentle hills) around our house. Any advice for beginner skis for that kind of environment? We often have light and deep powder here so probably need skis on the wider side so we can float. Our extended family suggested we avoid scales and go for skins or wax. I have read good things about the Fischer and Madshus offerings but don't have more guidance than that.

Are the size charts for BC skis generally accurate? I've read mixed things. I'm 6'4" 200lbs, my wife is 5'5" 120lbs.

Best,
Eric

[lilcliffy]

Hello Eric,

You are welcome and am very happy to hear we have been helpful!
(Skiing is a lot like forestry as it is highly dependant on indigenous knowledge- what works in my ecological context will not necessarily mean anything in a different ecological context!)

"Float" is a term I usually reserve for very wide, flat, phat skis- of which there are two types:
1) short, straight, wide "hunting" skis from Eurasia
2) modern downhill "powder" skis

Neither of the two skis above are intended for covering distance with any efficiency.
Yes a short wide ski is going to float- but it is going to be very slow.
A downhill BC powder ski does float, but it will be all over the place when XC skiing as it is designed to plane, float and for smeary, surfy turns.

The Finns use VERY long (e.g. 300cm) narrow (e.g. 70mm) skis for distance-oriented skiing in deep, dry snow.

None of the "narrow" BC-XC/XCD/Fjellskis are going to offer "float" that compares.
At 175lbs without a pack I need a ski at least 78mm underfoot before they truly start to float- and even my freshest, coldest, eastern Canadian snow is probably more moisture-rich than yours...

Float is not everything in deep soft snow. Stability is just as important- more important IMO.
My Altai Kom and Hok definitely float higher than my Combat Nato/Ingstad/Gamme 54- but all three of these narrow Fjellskis are rock-solid stable in deep snow and are much more efficient XC skis than the short, wider Kom/Hok.

By comparison, BC-XC skis of similar width that have softer and/or rounder flex (e.g. Eon/Epoch/E109/FT62*)- might be fun downhill- but they are totally unstable when XC skiing in deep soft snow.

So- if your pursuits in general are Nordic touring on backcountry snow on gentle to moderate terrain-
My advice is narrow (50ishmm) to midwidth (60ish) long BC-XC skis with relatively low-camber (i.e. the classic "camber-and-a-half ski") and a supportive flex.
There are a lot of skis to choose from in this range- the best option depends on many variables.

Nordic touring skis wider than 62ishmm underfoot tend to be downhill-focused- the exception being the Fischer Excursion 88- which is 68mm underfoot. (The Asnes USGI Combat ski is similar but much heavier than the E-88).

I am assuming you are looking for a completely different ski here than the one for the track? Or are you looking for a single ski for the track and some off-track touring? I am assuming this is still a "XC" pursuit and you are not looking for a downhill-focused ski?
Gareth

[esnichols1]

Hi Gareth,

Your assumptions are correct! I probably mistakenly used the word "float" coming from a downhill background. More meant to say skis that would function well in deeper snow and light powder, but not downhill powder-based float. We're keeping to pretty flat terrain and mild hills to start. Also don't need something for groomed areas as we will eventually invest in proper skis for each. I have a quiver of snowboards. Would be hard for me to go to a one-size-fits-all approach here.

Thanks for your help!
Eric

[Musk Ox]

Categorically not an expert, Eric, but your needs and experience seem to be kinda similar to mine when I started, so I might have something to offer here.

I'd say think about skis specifically designed for using groomed tracks to access that “national forest with mellow rolling hills" you mention. If I understand right, you’ll be spending some time on those groomed tracks mastering your flow. But those mellow hills will almost certainly be accessible by spring, much quicker than you think, anyway, and will be increasingly irresistible. So next season you can simply shift your emphasis using the same equipment.

So something in the Madshus BC50/ Fischer E89/ Åsnes Mountain Touring 51 or Mountain Race 48 zone would be pretty good? 3/4-length metal edges for your comfort and safety, fit in tracks, really good on packed snow, such good fun for exploring if the conditions are right.

I know that people who go from Alpine/ randonnée to cross country get anxious about control on hills. In my limited experience, the BC50 and the MT51 are a little more forgiving than the MR48 (I think being a little weightier and fractionally broader, something something stiffer rocker camber something). The MT51 is a sort of snow-Bentley that will pick you up at your door and chauffeur you through the birch trees with a cigar, the MR48 a thin-tyred muscle car that leaves roadkill reindeer coated in authentic fairydust in its wake, the E89… is the E89, an institution as dependable and reassuring as your mum’s fridge (never actually been on a pair but everyone has them!) The BC50 is… apparently no longer made so ignore what I said about the BC50 (Madshus don’t do metal-edged light touring skis now? Hm. The Fjelltech M50 looks OK, though).

My first skis were waxless but the moment I went out on waxed skis I was like “Oh this is the best thing in the world, I’ve wasted years trying to have sex with people when I could have been reading about Swix.” But I also acknowledge it might be a good thing to learn propulsion without worrying about grip or icing, and the skin skis will absolutely allow that, with fewer compromises when compared to waxless bases I think. (Although grip waxing is really, really simple, and don't be bamboozled by the manifold dorkery, you can learn in 15 mins).