Help! Need kick waxing advice after a tour with much ski back-slipping

[Ptarmigan]

I am brand new to kick waxing. My husband and I purchased Asnes Nansen skis in early winter and have gotten out on a few ski tours in the mountains of Colorado with them. Being new to using waxable classic skis and kick waxing, I followed the wonderful advice on this forum and had really good results initially. We hot waxed and corked our entire bases with Swix Polar kick wax and then used the "wax of the day" in the wax pocket based on temperature, snow type etc. I was actually shocked at how amazing our first couple of waxing tries turned out.

First, we headed out on a very cold day near the Moffat Tunnel on Colorado's Front Range where the low the night before our trip was around 0 F with the high temperature predicted to be around 15 F. The snow on the ungroomed but well-packed (by skiers and snowshoers) shaded trail was quite old and thin. We corked in Swix Green to just the wax pocket and the results were great. Beautiful kick and glide. If anything we could have probably gone with just Polar as even the cold Green wax was sticking in a few spots!

The next trip was much warmer. Overnight lows were around 15 F with a daytime high of around 40 F predicted for our Christmas day ski tour at Hoosier Pass in Colorado. The snow on the ungroomed trail was a few days old and well packed by other skiers. The trail was almost entirely in the shade of the trees. We were at a very high elevation and figured that with the shade and low temperatures the night before, the snow would likely stay in the mid 20s F. (We don't have a snow thermometer but should get one!) Despite somewhat warm temperatures that day, the snow still felt very dry. We tried Swix Blue Extra and had perfect kick and glide. What a glorious day our our new Nansen waxable skis that was!

We were starting to think this was easy. Until yesterday.

Lows the night before our tour on the Tie Hack Loop near Fairplay, Colorado were 15 F. The daytime high was forecasted to be 28 F. The snow was extremely thin, old, dry, and wind scoured. Not many people had traveled this trail recently, though there were some tracks here and there. Most of the trail was in the shade of the trees. I looked at the description on the wax cans and it seemed like Swix Blue Extra fell into that temperature and condition range perfectly (old snow 14-27 degrees F).

We immediately ran into trouble with our skis barely gripping at all. We stopped and extended the Swix Blue Extra wax to the tips. We skied a while, but the grip was still awful. It didn't matter if we were on the hills of flats. There was simply no grip!

Next, we gave Swix Violet Extra a try, again, waxing all the way to the tips. Still no luck! Unfortunately (and foolishly), that was the warmest wax we brought along. With a high temperature of only 28 and such dry snow, I never considered that we might need red wax or even klister.

We fought our way through the rest of the tour (and of course it was still fun because it is skiing), but things were definitely tough with all the slippage. We probably should have just given in and put our skins on, but the terrain was rolling so we persisted without them. My arms are very sore today because of all the work they endured in preventing me from slipping backwards.

Anyway, any thoughts on what went wrong yesterday? Does following the temperature recommendations on the kick wax can not always work? Was this just because the snow was so incredibly old? I honestly don't remember when the last snowfall in that area might have been and most of it probably got blown away in a big wind event we had in Colorado last week. There seemed to be a mix of sugar, ice, crust and fine wind blown snow... and unfortunately bare dirt in a few spots. This has been a pretty awful snow year in Colorado.

Thanks for any advice you have!

[Woodserson]

(We don't have a snow thermometer but should get one!)

Was this just because the snow was so incredibly old? I honestly don't remember when the last snowfall in that area might have been and most of it probably got blown away in a big wind event we had in Colorado last week. There seemed to be a mix of sugar, ice, crust and fine wind blown snow... and unfortunately bare dirt in a few spots. This has been a pretty awful snow year in Colorado.

Thanks for any advice you have!

First, even a zipper thermometer is sufficient.

Second, old sugary icey transformed snow. More experienced people will chime in, but maybe a warmer wax, but quite possible it was too warm and the ice crystals are not going to embed into the wax. Tough to say. Yes, hedge your bets and bring more waxes than you think, especially in non-controlled areas like the BC where getting back to the car isn't a quick loop through the ski area.

A simple simple solution? X-Skins. Mohair. 30mm. You'll fly like the devil.

PS this is where either you get dorky with it, or you don't. So many waxes, so many opinions, so many things to try!

[fisheater]

I live in the land of not so good wax conditions. If blue isn’t golden as far as grip from the first kick, I don’t go any further without red/silver. I have no use for red whatsoever. With all do respect to Mr. Canna I have some V-50 Violet and have not written off as of yet.
So, let’s say you go 3 layers of V-40 Blue Extra heel to tip,and you don’t have grip. I should add that you’re only spreading the wax with the cork, I’ve learned, don’t try to make it shine like polish. You have two options you can go with violet, let’s say you did, and it didn’t (work heel to tip). First, don’t scrape. I would then go red/silver, one layer, heel to X-skin attachment. As a note, I prefer a synthetic cork for Red/silver, if I only carried one cork it would a synthetic. So now you put on red/silver and the worst happens, the snow sticks to it! No big deal!!! Lightly spread some Violet over the top. Just use a gentle touch, and a light touch. The red/silver will grip the snow crystals, the Violet will slide. It works.
Someday I will get a thermometer, maybe. I start out on the colder side and go from there.
I tried my 45 mm mohair skins on my Gamme once for 30 feet. Not enough glide for me, not even close. In fairness, the skin extended past the heel. At home test revealed previously that this was the case, while it also revealed that that length came to my heel on the Falketind 62. I said heck with the skin, and red/silver flew. Based on my 20 feet of skin experience I think a 30 mm X-skin would be what I would use on an X-ski.
There is a point when red/silver doesn’t work and you need to use klister. I have used toilet paper on my skis for the klister upon return to the truck, and I have used baby powder. Both work, but do not think that it will be a klister day tomorrow and not but one of those klister absorbers on your skis. Ask me how I know!!! I think if you have klister, it’s best to have baby powder and a beer. A litter baby powder and a carb drink while you scrape, life is good!
So, get some red/silver or an X-skin. The recommendation is not to stick your X-skin to a warmer wax than blue. Most of the guys like the X-skin option. If I ever get to ski with them I kind of hope it’s a red/silver day. I feel a lot more confident about hanging with them with me on red/silver and them on X-skins !
Good luck, remember we’re just trying to have fun sliding on snow. Make lemonade out of lemons, or kick back and paint a cool picture. I personally recommend a cold beer, but that’s just me.

[athabascae]

Indeed. 30 mm mohair kicker skins cut shortish or softer wax or klister.

Those conditions are tough on any ski, so don't sweat it. Sounds like you had a good day regardless.

On the bright side, your diligence paid off the other times when conditions were better. So, you learned quite quickly on your own that waxing isn't alchemy and can yield wonderful results. I'd say that's a major positive.

[Woodserson]

Indeed. 30 mm mohair kicker skins cut shortish or softer wax or klister.

Those conditions are tough on any ski, so don't sweat it. Sounds like you had a good day regardless.

On the bright side, your diligence paid off the other times when conditions were better. So, you learned quite quickly on your own that waxing isn't alchemy and can yield wonderful results. I'd say that's a major positive.

+1 Great reply!

2 outta 3 ain't bad!

I tried my 45 mm mohair skins on my Gamme once for 30 feet. Not enough glide for me, not even close. In fairness, the skin extended past the heel. At home test revealed previously that this was the case, while it also revealed that that length came to my heel on the Falketind 62. I said heck with the skin, and red/silver flew. Based on my 20 feet of skin experience I think a 30 mm X-skin would be what I would use on an X-ski.

This 45 is good for loads and hills where glide isn't going to be a priority. Still more glidey than the nylon. BUT you must trim the skins for what works for you. Keep hacking off 2cm at a time until it shines. Anything past the heel is drag anyway, usually. You really need some 30mm, Fish, they are really nice. But you have the klister magic touch anyway.

[fgd135]

Just my 2 cents, in Colorado, in my experience, in the tricky windblown and icy conditions you describe down there in Fairplay, a thin layer of Swix Blue Ice Klister would've been a good choice as "wax du jour".
It has mucho better glide than skins, much better grip than hard waxes in those cold windblown conditions. and is much better than applying too-warm hard waxes.
Remember with klister to apply it sparingly, usually a single thin bead on each side of the tracking groove, down the length of the wax pocket; don't apply gobs of klister in a herringbone like is shown on the Swix box! Use the klister paddle to spread that thin bead in the wax pocket only. No need to cork in. Ski. If the grip needs improving, try extending the klister towards the tips in increments of maybe 10cm/no need to extend any wax towards the tail, past the heel plate, as that just adds drag but has no benefit.
If you need a second layer, add it, but once again do not over-apply.
Many skiers shy away from the stuff, but klister works really well in the right conditions, and if you have a good scraper and a little sample-size bottle of foot or baby powder, it is easy to remove--just sprinkle the powder liberally onto the klister and it will scrape off very easily and without much stickiness.

[Smitty]

I've shied away from klister so far. I'm inland and fairly far north, so have stable temps for waxing through most of the season. But I'll have to order a tube for this spring when we start getting the re-frozen slush from the sunny days / cold nights. As well as the obligatory baby powder of course. Thanks for the tip.

[fisheater]

Just my 2 cents, in Colorado, in my experience, in the tricky windblown and icy conditions you describe down there in Fairplay, a thin layer of Swix Blue Ice Klister would've been a good choice as "wax du jour".
It has mucho better glide than skins, much better grip than hard waxes in those cold windblown conditions. and is much better than applying too-warm hard waxes.
Remember with klister to apply it sparingly, usually a single thin bead on each side of the tracking groove, down the length of the wax pocket; don't apply gobs of klister in a herringbone like is shown on the Swix box! Use the klister paddle to spread that thin bead in the wax pocket only. No need to cork in. Ski. If the grip needs improving, try extending the klister towards the tips in increments of maybe 10cm/no need to extend any wax towards the tail, past the heel plate, as that just adds drag but has no benefit.
If you need a second layer, add it, but once again do not over-apply.
Many skiers shy away from the stuff, but klister works really well in the right conditions, and if you have a good scraper and a little sample-size bottle of foot or baby powder, it is easy to remove--just sprinkle the powder liberally onto the klister and it will scrape off very easily and without much stickiness.

Sound advise! I’m not afraid to use wet (red) klister, there are probably times when I get red/silver wax to work, when I would probably get even better performance out of blue klister.
If you don’t have baby powder, toilet paper is an adequate substitute.

[greatgt]

If it's klister....I head for the bones...TM

[lilcliffy]

For BC-XC-XCd skiiing- especially in mid-winter-

I always test the kicker skin before I move to softer wax or klister-

But I do think that klister would have solved your problem.