Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Bindingfreedom dot com.
http://bindingfreedom.com/
Did a search here. No mention of it.

So creative, innovative free heelers who do their own craftsmanship at home:

Who is using this hardware, ideas, products...?

Been using Quiver Killers and/or Binding Freedom for the last 5 years. In all the skis I've inserted, I've had one tele pattern and one alpine pattern on each ski so that I can share bindings. Initially that was HH's and Solly 912's. Now I'm running NTN (6-hole metal plate) and the Solly's with good spacing between all holes.

The inserts have been absolutely bomber for me, and I haven't had a single spinner or failure with over 60 installed. Install takes a little more care than your standard binding mount, but just allows for a little more beer drinking out in the garage. I really enjoy the flexibility of being able to swap bindings around to different skis - and makes for easier travel with multiple skis as you can just stack them up in the bag.

Preference wise, I like the binding freedom inserts over the qk's

Tom - thank you for the positive and helpful post. Yes I am convinced also.
I have a variety of bindings also with all the 75mm to NTN and AT dabbling drama.

Love the idea of stacking skis for travel.

I was a bit shocked by the price of inserts (25 for 28$ I think), but it'll all make sense in the end.

I am pretty good at hand drilling plumb to the ski, but I wonder if an actual drill press would be more optional...
It is a little extra fiddling around, and some skis definitely need the tap to get a start thru the hard top sheet.

Do you just torque the final machine screws down, or do you add loc-tite? I know you epoxy the inserts in; with regular binding jobs in wood core I usually just use wood glue because I know they are coming off sooner than later. But the inserts are forever... (I never had any issues at all with regular screws working loose).

So dry snug works, or do you add something to keep the water out and the threads happy inside the insert?

I am pro-more beer/shop time

I use a drill press, mainly because I have one. The biggest concern is just drilling plumb, so if you're good with a hand drill, you'll be fine. Hand-drills with the bubble level on the back work well. With the inserts you're going to have less room for error with placement, so good layout is key. I like to get everything center-punched well then overlay the binding/plate/template to check my locations prior to drilling. If you're going to try to put more than one pattern on a ski, spend some time with the templates ahead of time to figure out if you'll have any conflicts and if you can cheat something a cm to clear a conflict - you'll generally want an insert width between any adjacent holes.

For the inserts, you will absolutely want to tap the holes, regardless of whether you're installing in a ski with metal or not, as you need that insert to go in vertical. I generally drill the hole on the press, then put the tap in the chuck and tap the hole (turning the chuck by hand) before I unclamp the ski from that spot (gets the tap running the exact same alignment as the drill bit). Use slow cure (preferably like 72 hour) epoxy between the insert and ski. I like to run an insert into each tapped hole a couple turns prior to epoxying just to make sure it starts easily and doesn't try to cross-thread.

For binding connections, you should use some sort of thread-locker, as it's a machine screw connection. Vibratite VC-3 is the best thing to use, as it plays nicely with plastics, where-as standard locktite can eat certain plastics (i.e. HH's). The VC-3 gets painted on the screws ahead of time and dries to a rubbery type material, and can basically be re-used several times until it wears off. The instructions that come with the inserts are very thorough. Price-wise, they're not necessarily cheap, but are a drop in the bucket when you compare that to another set of bindings.

The Binding Freedom inserts are excellent. TomH covered it all. I do it by hand - hole punch, small bit, bigger bit, F bit with stop collar. Then I use a hand tap and guide -- it's important to tap to the bottom (but not over tap). When I've failed to go down all the way, I get a decent volcano effect. Double Bubble epoxy and plenty of it. Drive in the insert with BF's tool or the two nuts on a screw method (a little more time consuming). Clean up the extra epoxy that bubbles up and let it dry for 24 hours -- I usually keep some acetone handy in my poorly ventilated basement. I started using BF's silicone plugs to prevent epoxy from getting inside the insert, but that's a bit overkill. Also agree re Vibratite VC3. There's a long thread on inserts over at TGR.

Some of my skis are swiss cheese (4-hole tele and many-hole TTS).

hey - excellent review, discussion and questions answered. I can see that technique of following the bit at the press with the tap, while in the same position, and then hand turning the chuck while applying steady downward pressure on the press. Clever. I will have to check the TGR thread too.

We have been running the tap to the bottom by hand using a hand tap driver from my (automotive) tap & die set. It's been working out ok, and its been a lot of work.

I was kind of curious what the hand (drill and) tap guide looks like.
So I peeked here: http://www.biggatortools.com/products.html
I can see how these would be useful - I have a similar tool in my carpentry boxes for drilling straight dowels.

So ideal sequence without a press might be:
1) Center punch using template (then check with actual binding or plate, using the measure twice rule).
2) Start hole with small bit, then drill finish hole for screw or insert (staying as plumb as possible)
3) Then start tap, clamp tap guide, and finish your plumb tap job.

I can see how the press might remove some of the steps and fiddling about....

GEO wrote:So ideal sequence without a press might be:
1) Center punch using template (then check with actual binding or plate, using the measure twice rule).
2) Start hole with small bit, then drill finish hole for screw or insert (staying as plumb as possible)
3) Then start tap, clamp tap guide, and finish your plumb tap job.

That's pretty much how I do it. For drill bits, if I'm just not doing inserts, the stepped bits rock:

http://www.slidewright.com/alpine-bindi ... l-bits.php

For inserts, I'll use the stepped alpine bit before using the F bit. There is a stepped bit for inserts, but the step is so slight, I'm yet to trust it. Instead, I just use a stop collar. Fuller's stops, with two screws to clamp onto the bit, are far better than collars with one screw. Like these:

http://www.slidewright.com/drill-bit--t ... ex-key.php

As I said before, I don't use a guide to drill. Even when I use a jig, I just use the jig for the center punch. Then I remove the jig and drill. For tapping, I use a fairly cheap guide:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/140876 ... 7AodoFIAzw

Once tapped, I use the Double Bubble epoxy (24-hour cure has been fine for me; I like getting high, but the fumes from that 72-hour stuff is tough to handle). You can get it much cheaper in bulk through The Epoxy Source online. I don't skimp on the epoxy; I aim to use just enough so that it bubbles up as I'm finishing installing the insert, but I rather it glop up then not appear (so a bottle of Acetone nearby is always good).

Thanks for those links dschane - they will be useful to others who follow also. I've been doing a few skis every year for a long time with success, but what I am learning here is very useful - again thanks! It is not rocket science, but it can be tricky, and some of the extra pro tools are fairly spendy for the younger DIY guy.

I recently got my self some stepped bits (finally). And I do have a few different single set screw stops, but I usually just use electrical tape (although it is not ideal when doing multiple skis as it eventually deforms).

I can roll with the drilling without a guide, although I do like TomH's press descriptions. I will get to try that method one day....

I like that drill guide you showed for use with the tap. Seems like I might find one of those at the hardware store.

OT: Can you remind me what I'm supposed to do with skis that show no suggested boot center line ? I have a pair of race skis sans stock plate; I have figured out where Center Running Surface (CRS) is on them, but I find myself sorta guessing on the NTN mount placement... I may just measure CRS to Boot Center on an existing comfortable mount job and just recreate that geometry. (The NTN is kind of cool because one can move the binding on the plate forward or back, pending on where one initially mounts the plate.)

GEO wrote:OT: Can you remind me what I'm supposed to do with skis that show no suggested boot center line ? I have a pair of race skis sans stock plate; I have figured out where Center Running Surface (CRS) is on them, but I find myself sorta guessing on the NTN mount placement... I may just measure CRS to Boot Center on an existing comfortable mount job and just recreate that geometry. (The NTN is kind of cool because one can move the binding on the plate forward or back, pending on where one initially mounts the plate.)

If the ski manufacturer didn't return my email and I couldn't successfully Google any published best alpine lines for the ski, your suggested approach is probably what I'd do. I'd probably also compare that location with pins on the CRS and pins on cord center to see how it all matches up (I realize NTN has no pins, but I'd be curious all the same). The rest is voodoo. Well, so is all that.

Yep, thanks for the links Dschane! Since I have a ski room now, I need some new tools...!
(I still enjoy my Karhu Ryders, thanks again!!!)

I don't bother trying to contact manufacturers to know where I should mount my skis. Most of the time, I write down all the marks I can get... CC, CRS, weight center, narrowest part of the ski, hints from the ski cosmetics etc. Then see if the marks make sense... I try to feel and understand the basic construction of the ski. I try to think where I would mount NN and where I would mount NTN. When I made a decision, I do the ultimate test: I just step on the skis with my boots on and try to imagine if the mounting position would feel right or not on the snow.

Measurements + feeling, it always works...!