What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

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crb
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What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by crb » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:57 am

I'm in the market for a XCD ski but those that fit the bill are no longer made: the Karhu 10th Mountain and/or the Madshus Ecoch and/or Madshus Annum. What is currently a good replacement for those?

I spend most of my time touring in the BC, from breaking trail in knee-deep snow to hard pack. I'd like something that also works for low- to moderate-grade downhill turns. I am -not- looking for a full-on telemark ski -- emphasis on touring (without skins if possible), not turning.

Thanks!

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Nitram Tocrut
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by Nitram Tocrut » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:17 pm

crb wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:57 am
I'm in the market for a XCD ski but those that fit the bill are no longer made: the Karhu 10th Mountain and/or the Madshus Ecoch and/or Madshus Annum. What is currently a good replacement for those?

I spend most of my time touring in the BC, from breaking trail in knee-deep snow to hard pack. I'd like something that also works for low- to moderate-grade downhill turns. I am -not- looking for a full-on telemark ski -- emphasis on touring (without skins if possible), not turning.

Thanks!
Actually they will be available but under a new name, Panorama M62 (Epoch) and Panorama78 (Annum). According to the in-house expert from Aventure Nordique, they are basically the same ski.

https://www.skirandonneenordique.com/ac ... 2021-2022/






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stilltryin
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by stilltryin » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:42 pm

If the Panorama numbers are waist width, Guide/Annum was 78; XCD-GT/Eon was 62.
The 10th Mtn./Epoch was 68 -- so maybe no Panorama in that ski?

Edit: Ah, seeing the video, it look like all three. Nice!





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Rodbelan
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by Rodbelan » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:14 pm

Eon and Panorama M62... I bought the later and compared it to the Eon. Not at all the same. I suspect the M68 is also unlike the Epoch. Ski construction, overall stiffness, rocker and possibly camber... My M62 are much sturdier than Eon. Fuck1ng great ski BTW. Newer versions (2021-22) will reintroduce scales...
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lilcliffy
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:09 am

@Rodbelan Very cool that you are loving the M62 ski!
Do we have confirmation that the 2021-20211 M62/68/78 will be consistent with the ski you bought?
I get the impression from the Aventure Nordique site that the 2021-2022 models will be identical to the old Eon/Epoch/Annum (which were identical to the last-gen Karhu XCD GTXCD 10th Mtn/XCD Guide)...

BTW- 2020-2021 M62 and M68 on sale at Sport Conrad: https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/cross-c ... ntry-skis/

It seems very strange to me that Madshus would go to all the R&D and production expense to redesign the 62/68- just to drop it and continue with the old Eon/Epoch/Annum...

After the reports here on the 2019-2021 M62- I was actually looking forward to trying it and the M68- I also had my fingers crossed on a waxable, tip-rockered "Guide"/M78 in the same design as the 2019-2021 M62/M68...

For the last couple of years Madshus was selling both the redesigned M62 & M68 as well as the old Eon (Eon 62), Epoch (Epoch 68), and Annum (Annum 78). My friend very recently bought a brand new Eon 62 and it is identical to all of our Eon Omintracks.

Regardless- it would seem that Madshus is only going to have one line of their widest, low cambered "XCD" skis for this upcoming season.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
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lilcliffy
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:30 am

@crb Hello and Welcome!

As a few have pointed out- it doesn't look like the Epoch/Annum have disapeared- the question is whether the 2021-2022 models are identical to the old Epoch/XC10th Mtn and Annum/XCD Guide, or whether they have the redesigned contruction and geometry of the 2019-2021 M68...

Alternatives-
- Fischer S-Bound 98
- Fischer S-Bound 112
- Rossignol BC110 (there may be a few leftovers out there for sale)
- Rossignol BC100
- Asnes Falketind 62
- Asnes Rabb 68

The other thing to consider is that the downhill performance of the wider classic BC-XC (fjellskis) has recently improved with the introduction of Nordic Rocker and taper.

For example- the Guide/Annum used to be my top pick for the skiing you describe in soft snow (it sucks on hardpack- both as a XC ski and a downhill ski). In recent years- in the low to moderate terrain you describe- I have completely replaced the Guide/Annum with skis like the Fischer E109 and the Asnes Ingstad- both of these skis are just as good downhill as the wider shaped hybrid skis above↑- they are much more efficient XC skis; can be just as stable in deep snow (Ingstad in particular); are MUCH better XC skis on consolidated snow (E109 in particular).

I would definitely consider the E109 and Ingstad as a potential replacement for the Epoch/Annum for the skiing you describe.
Gareth
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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Rodbelan
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by Rodbelan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:15 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:09 am
@Rodbelan Very cool that you are loving the M62 ski!
Do we have confirmation that the 2021-20211 M62/68/78 will be consistent with the ski you bought?
I get the impression from the Aventure Nordique site that the 2021-2022 models will be identical to the old Eon/Epoch/Annum (which were identical to the last-gen Karhu XCD GTXCD 10th Mtn/XCD Guide)...

BTW- 2020-2021 M62 and M68 on sale at Sport Conrad: https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/cross-c ... ntry-skis/

It seems very strange to me that Madshus would go to all the R&D and production expense to redesign the 62/68- just to drop it and continue with the old Eon/Epoch/Annum...

After the reports here on the 2019-2021 M62- I was actually looking forward to trying it and the M68- I also had my fingers crossed on a waxable, tip-rockered "Guide"/M78 in the same design as the 2019-2021 M62/M68...

For the last couple of years Madshus was selling both the redesigned M62 & M68 as well as the old Eon (Eon 62), Epoch (Epoch 68), and Annum (Annum 78). My friend very recently bought a brand new Eon 62 and it is identical to all of our Eon Omintracks.

Regardless- it would seem that Madshus is only going to have one line of their widest, low cambered "XCD" skis for this upcoming season.
I think they will keep the new construction (nordic rocker and all) and add scales... We will have to see. Régis is saying that all these skis are all the same; he's wrong, at least for those I mentioned.
Don't be shy to buy one of those M62... They are absolutely great. I skied em at the resort the other day. With Leather boots. I was surprised at how stable they were and how easy to turn... Much, much easier that the Glitt.
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wabene
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by wabene » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:25 pm

The weird thing to me is the fishscale versions don't have the transition skin. We will have to watch to see what they do. Do they completely discontinue the waxable Transition skin version?





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crb
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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by crb » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:21 am

Thanks all! This is great info!!

As a follow up, what is your collective experience w/ intelligrip skins vs fish scales? I've only ever used fish scales, but am interested to know how they compare to the intelligrip skins.

Again, we typically crash around the backcountry on low- to moderate-grade slopes.

Thanks!





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Re: What is the best replacement ski for the Karhu 10th Mtn or Madshus Epoch?

Post by Rodbelan » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:19 am

I wouldn't say that they compare... They are different beasts. Intelgrip is more efficient, made for climbing; you wouldn't want them all the time.
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