Newish XC skier looking for suggestions on getting deeper out there

[chris_the_wrench]

These work great too- if you can find them: https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5048-442/ ... rdic-Skins

Those look very proper!

[Nick BC]

I wonder if the new BD kicker skins will have less glide resistance than the older ones with the metal clip. I have the old ones and they are certainly impeding glide to a certain degree, but it’s not a deal breaker.

[jyw5]

“ but before jumping in and buying new skins, figure out exactly what you plan on using them for (i.e., conditions, slope angle, max grip, max glide, uphill travel only, etc)...and ultimately, the skins must compliment your setup and abilities.”

I’d like a ski that has better downhill character on less forgiving snow and provides better float for backcountry trips into glacier natl park. Rolling terrain with occasional long gradual climbs. Im willing to carry some more weight uphill. I alpine ski everywhere on most western mountains, but on my current xc skis I can barely survive the mellowest of green runs UNLESS theres some fresh snow. But the other day I was trying some spring xc and I encountered variable conditions of slop and ice. I, seriously, crashed like 10-15 times within 100 yards. I know my technique for ‘xcd’ sucks and Im trying to deal with that too.

Your 64mm xc skis are too narrow and have very little sidecut...you have started on skinnies and more than likely this is way skinnier than anything you are used to at the ski resort or AT skiing... so start with a wider ski...
once you get better, you can graduate to skinnier skis...

I would start with a ski similar to the S112 or S98. Its a waxless ski, reasonably priced, has very durable kicker ez skins. I have skiied 200+ days on them and have become a decent skiier. These fischer skis have very little camber and the waxless pattern makes the ski very slow, but easy to control on most conditions, especially with the skins on...does terribly in icy conditions, breakable crust, and deep heavy powder (which most skiiers don't do well on anyway). You will also need to wax the skis when the snow is wet/heavy/sticky. search this forum on waxing with swix polar.

Honestly, the asnes skis everyone raves about (myself included) cannot be fully appreciated until you become a more experienced skiier. It is best to learn on a ski that is a jack of all trades, master of none.

I have gone from resort skiing and casual hikes to mountaineering in 5 yrs, so I have experienced a very fast advancement in a short amount of time...but also have spent many many hours outside and many many hours also reading, discussing, and watching videos.

watch the japanese videos from telehero (search here or on youtube) and read the telemark book:



also, search for all the ski videos from this forum, ...like the ones from Tom! (Thanks Tom!) ... there is more than enough useful info here. The rest just requires time and alot of practice.

its going to take alot of falling to get good at this.


Good luck!

[riel]

I would start with a ski similar to the S112 or S98. Its a waxless ski, reasonably priced, has very durable kicker ez skins. I have skiied 200+ days on them and have become a decent skiier. These fischer skis have very little camber and the waxless pattern makes the ski very slow, but easy to control on most conditions, especially with the skins on...does terribly in icy conditions, breakable crust, and deep heavy powder (which most skiiers don't do well on anyway). You will also need to wax the skis when the snow is wet/heavy/sticky. search this forum on waxing with swix polar.

Honestly, the asnes skis everyone raves about (myself included) cannot be fully appreciated until you become a more experienced skiier. It is best to learn on a ski that is a jack of all trades, master of none.

As much as my Asnes Ingstad skis seem to both glide better and turn better (in soft snow) than my S-Bound 112 skis, I have to agree that the kick & glide on the Asnes skis just takes a whole lot more attention and skill than the Fischer skis, which just work.

It's a shame, because Asnes could probably fix that 80% of the way with some relatively small modifications to their fishscale pattern, specifically making it longer and placing it forward a little.

[chris_the_wrench]

Your 64mm xc skis are too narrow and have very little sidecut...you have started on skinnies and more than likely this is way skinnier than anything you are used to at the ski resort or AT skiing... so start with a wider ski...
once you get better, you can graduate to skinnier skis...

I would start with a ski similar to the S112 or S98. Its a waxless ski, reasonably priced, has very durable kicker ez skins. I have skiied 200+ days on them and have become a decent skiier. These fischer skis have very little camber and the waxless pattern makes the ski very slow, but easy to control on most conditions, especially with the skins on...does terribly in icy conditions, breakable crust, and deep heavy powder (which most skiiers don't do well on anyway). You will also need to wax the skis when the snow is wet/heavy/sticky. search this forum on waxing with swix polar.

Ok Im reviving my own older thread. Im going to try and search out some preseason deals on a pair of s112 or s98.
Will my nnnbc boots/bindings be enough for those skis? To reiterate I live in Nw montana and want to do alot of extended touring on nongroomed surfaces with significant climbing and descending but emphasis on the touring/climbing but survive/enjoy the downhills. We dont have much flatland here(except frozen lakes) its either rolling or steep up/down.

Thank you
Chris

[KnoxPolk]

Hi Cris, if you want that heel riser you can check this new Rottefella Xplore bindings I am waiting for these as well but still there is no information when they will be available at the market, I hope soon

[jyw5]

I live in Alaska, so I think your conditions are similar and probably more forgiving in NW Montana. bc nnn is fine. you dont need heel risers. they are light and the boots are decent for shoulder/late season which require some hiking/scrambling. nnnbc boots better than 3pin duckbill when challenging hiking is required. I have no problems with this setup until its icy boiler plate or breakable crust. you will see that I have whined about these conditions in this forum many times. I still don't have a good solution for this other than survival skiing with skins on. But in retrospect, even on an AT setup with heels locked down, I have done rather poorly in those conditions.

I learned on S112 with nnnbc. It took 2 seasons, 100+ days, for me to ski reasonably well. another 3 seasons to become proficient enough to handle some of the toughest conditions and steep skiing.

after some comparison, the asnes ft62 is much better than the fischer s112....but only in optimal conditions, more expensive (skis+skins+shipping) and also requires more skill/experience to feel the difference.

the asnes nansen/skog is better than S112 as well but the slightly more camber requires better technique.

finding an asnes replacement for my worn out S112 is still a work in progress. may be another season to figure it out.

[chris_the_wrench]

I live in Alaska, so I think your conditions are similar and probably more forgiving in NW Montana. bc nnn is fine. you dont need heel risers. they are light and the boots are decent for shoulder/late season which require some hiking/scrambling. nnnbc boots better than 3pin duckbill when challenging hiking is required. I have no problems with this setup until its icy boiler plate or breakable crust. you will see that I have whined about these conditions in this forum many times. I still don't have a good solution for this other than survival skiing with skins on. But in retrospect, even on an AT setup with heels locked down, I have done rather poorly in those conditions.

I learned on S112 with nnnbc. It took 2 seasons, 100+ days, for me to ski reasonably well. another 3 seasons to become proficient enough to handle some of the toughest conditions and steep skiing.

after some comparison, the asnes ft62 is much better than the fischer s112....but only in optimal conditions, more expensive (skis+skins+shipping) and also requires more skill/experience to feel the difference.

the asnes nansen/skog is better than S112 as well but the slightly more camber requires better technique.

finding an asnes replacement for my worn out S112 is still a work in progress. may be another season to figure it out.

Dang making me feel like a hoser, im not sure I could turn some s112’s with my nnnbc. However since i already have the boots and those bindings are like $60 maybe I’ll try it and see if i can hang, if not i’ll buy some 75mm voiles. Now I just need to track down some skis on sale…


-Chris

[chris_the_wrench]

Revisting this thread I started last spring. I had hopes of tracking down some Fischer Sbound 98's but I never found them in the 189, and sounds like they may never show up this season. So Im looking for suggestions. I have my Salomon Escape Outpath 64 skis, these work great for the golf course or heading up closed roads, and even flatter off trail but Id like something abit wider and more stable for venturing off the track into more rolling(Montana) terrain. Would a discovery 80 be too similar? With the Sbound 98 not being available, should I consider a S112(if those are available) or the positracks(mixed reviews)?

Most of my tours are a couple to four hours max Im abit concerned they(s112) are too wide for rolling terrain, Im not terribly scared of extra weight, and Im also a solo skier so no need to keep up with anyone. I 'think' I want to stay more around 100mm'ish??

I will be using NNNBC, I'd prefer waxless(with a kicker or full length skin) but Im open to a wax ski. 6'3" 195'ish lbs.

Thanks
-Chris

[phoenix]

The simple version of my thoughts: Wider skis, full skins, and 75mm. With this set up, you will be able to transfer your alpine skills pretty quickly to the light gear; it's pretty easy to use parallel technique on these rigs once you get the hang of it. It's the tele turn which requires unlearning (took me a long time). In the interim, just ski instinctively with the skills you have.
If you are open minded about this, there's loads of used gear out there which could work well for you, at least for a start. An good pair of leather 75's, something around 70-80mm underfoot for skis, could take you far and wide, or close to home and simple.