Crusty

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Transplantskier
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:56 am
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Favorite Skis: Åsnes Nansen WL
Favorite boots: Crispi Stetind

Re: Crusty

Post by Transplantskier » Thu May 06, 2021 9:20 am

jyw5 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:30 am
My conclusion is that the Skog works very well in most situations. It even works well on steep slopes when the snow is corn or well supported soft snow (shallow mash)...especially if you use a kicker mohair skin or a full length mixed mohair for very steep descents (like what would be an easier double black diamond or single black at a ski resort).

I think perhaps a short Gamme 54 (170cm?) may be my next pair of skis. I want a light, stiff cambered ski with less rocker for those windblown crusty days on moderate slopes, refrozen chilly summer mornings, and also groomed runs at ski resorts (which some glaciers weirdly resemble sometimes). I am less concerned with K&G and more concerned about fun/safe descents in variable conditions that do not include deep snow (summer skiing/hiking). ...the long approaches will be slower with short skis, but in many cases, the alternative is simply to A-frame carry the skis.
I've been paying a lot of attention to your posts this winter because we seem to be heading toward the exact same goal. I'm skiing the 185 Nansen (my weight is 66kg) and am looking to go for something shorter and lighter for the same reasons you are.

I actually emailed Åsnes when I was considering doing it with a super short Ingstad or Skog (I've since determined something stiffer like the Gamme is probably a better direction) and got this response from Asbjørn Åsnes.

"it's the first time I have questions about such a setup, but it is an interesting approach.

If this set up is only for fun downhill I think it will works out with Ingstad 165 or Cecilie 170. Of this two choice I think Ingstad is the best one."

So far I haven't acquired the short ski yet, but I'm interested to hear if anyone else heads in this direction.

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lilcliffy
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Crusty

Post by lilcliffy » Thu May 06, 2021 3:51 pm

Just as a note Transplantskier- Woodserson just recommended the Ingstad over the Nansen as well to Fisheater in the adjacent active thread.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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jyw5
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:52 am

Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Sat May 08, 2021 1:26 pm

Transplantskier wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:20 am
jyw5 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:30 am
My conclusion is that the Skog works very well in most situations. It even works well on steep slopes when the snow is corn or well supported soft snow (shallow mash)...especially if you use a kicker mohair skin or a full length mixed mohair for very steep descents (like what would be an easier double black diamond or single black at a ski resort).

I think perhaps a short Gamme 54 (170cm?) may be my next pair of skis. I want a light, stiff cambered ski with less rocker for those windblown crusty days on moderate slopes, refrozen chilly summer mornings, and also groomed runs at ski resorts (which some glaciers weirdly resemble sometimes). I am less concerned with K&G and more concerned about fun/safe descents in variable conditions that do not include deep snow (summer skiing/hiking). ...the long approaches will be slower with short skis, but in many cases, the alternative is simply to A-frame carry the skis.
I've been paying a lot of attention to your posts this winter because we seem to be heading toward the exact same goal. I'm skiing the 185 Nansen (my weight is 66kg) and am looking to go for something shorter and lighter for the same reasons you are.

I actually emailed Åsnes when I was considering doing it with a super short Ingstad or Skog (I've since determined something stiffer like the Gamme is probably a better direction) and got this response from Asbjørn Åsnes.

"it's the first time I have questions about such a setup, but it is an interesting approach.

If this set up is only for fun downhill I think it will works out with Ingstad 165 or Cecilie 170. Of this two choice I think Ingstad is the best one."

So far I haven't acquired the short ski yet, but I'm interested to hear if anyone else heads in this direction.
That gives me something to think about. The snow in the summer is usually crusty and icy. I think the rocker tip on many of these skis don't help and many skis are now designed to address powder...but the truth is, powder conditions are a less frequent condition, at least where I ski. Perhaps, a good question would be, if one were to ski every single day of the year here in Alaska, which ski would be useful for most of the time? (165cm Ingstad WL ? ...and would it do better than a Fischer S112 or S98?)

Even now, the day starts out at 3000ft with hard icy snow which becomes soft for excellent crust skiing then turns soft and becomes mash and easy to ski. For June and July, skiing takes place at 4000ft-6000ft, in shaded areas, north facing aspects, and near and on glaciers. This snow tends to be refrozen and hard and on most days, the snow barely softens up.





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
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Re: Crusty

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 pm

I could be totally wrong on this, but I think the only time rocker wouldn't improve turning on an otherwise stiff nordic ski, would be on boiler plate or very hard icy crust. If there's anything soft to carve into on top, then the rocker should improve turning. Again, I could be wrong I've only had about 3 days out in true spring conditions.





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jyw5
Posts: 252
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Sat May 08, 2021 8:00 pm

ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 pm
I could be totally wrong on this, but I think the only time rocker wouldn't improve turning on an otherwise stiff nordic ski, would be on boiler plate or very hard icy crust. If there's anything soft to carve into on top, then the rocker should improve turning. Again, I could be wrong I've only had about 3 days out in true spring conditions.
You are right. rocker not only does not improve turning on icy crust, its actually quite terrible. I was on Bear Mt this winter and the ft62 which has a rocker tip was completely unusable on flattish windblown sustrugi. I had full skins on it and the ft62 was unable to track straight and turning was impossible.

the rocker tips slap against the hard surface and bounces up and down and causes you to be completely unstable. And if the crust is breakable at any point, the skis completely fail unless you are fast enough to hop out of it.





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riel
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:31 pm
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: BC XC
Favorite Skis: Alpina Discovery 80 / Asnes Ingstad, Sondre / Fischer S-Bound 112
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Re: Crusty

Post by riel » Sat May 08, 2021 8:41 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:00 pm
ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 pm
I could be totally wrong on this, but I think the only time rocker wouldn't improve turning on an otherwise stiff nordic ski, would be on boiler plate or very hard icy crust. If there's anything soft to carve into on top, then the rocker should improve turning. Again, I could be wrong I've only had about 3 days out in true spring conditions.
You are right. rocker not only does not improve turning on icy crust, its actually quite terrible. I was on Bear Mt this winter and the ft62 which has a rocker tip was completely unusable on flattish windblown sustrugi. I had full skins on it and the ft62 was unable to track straight and turning was impossible.

the rocker tips slap against the hard surface and bounces up and down and causes you to be completely unstable. And if the crust is breakable at any point, the skis completely fail unless you are fast enough to hop out of it.
That depends on how soft or stiff that rockered tip is.

On my Fischer S-Bound 112, I get the same slapping phenomenon. Same thing on Alpina Discovery 80, and Rossignol BC90.

However, the rockered tips on my Ingstads are much stiffer and barely suffer from that issue, though I have heard they are still soft enough to be terrible in breakable crust.

On the Gammes, the rockered tips are stiffer still.





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lilcliffy
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Crusty

Post by lilcliffy » Sun May 09, 2021 9:19 pm

riel wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 8:41 pm
However, the rockered tips on my Ingstads are much stiffer and barely suffer from that issue, though I have heard they are still soft enough to be terrible in breakable crust.
It is not that the tip-shovel of the Ingstad BC is too soft (as you state above the shovel-tip of the Ingstad is totally stable)-
the problem with the Ingstad BC in breakable crust is its considerable rocker-
the shovel and tip rise up and ride on top of the snow, whil the midsection of the ski breaks through the crust.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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