Crusty

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lowangle al
Posts: 1765
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Re: Crusty

Post by lowangle al » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:33 pm

I'm not sure if you are referring the problem of touring on the breakable crust or turning on it, but for turning I'd want my tips to stay on top.

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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Crusty

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:15 pm

Yes I'm referring to touring. Descending in those conditions is highly doubtful at my current skill level regardless of equipment.





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jyw5
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:34 pm

The crust in Alaska this winter has been difficult. Its variable... some breakable some not...its all mixed together due to the wind and periods of sun and temps being all over the place. Riding on top of the crust is not much better as there is no edging possible on the hard crust, making turning nearly impossible on steep angles... I have been mostly bombing it down in one direction and riding on top of the icy crust then weighting the uphill ski in a soft spot to stop, then kickturn and repeat. thats the only way to make it down a steep mountain in these conditions.


And Woods -- that guy with that setup is pretty hardcore. He has climbed and snowboarded some seriously steep lines. And that 27mi route he did this weekend is no joke. There is one section that is pretty sketch especially with the hard windcrusted snow we have now. After seeing his heel riser, it makes me want to switch all of my NNN BC pieces.

I like his boots too because these new Phantom boots have a heat moldable shell and they are lightweight yet stiff/supportive, adjustable, and can be used with an Intuition Liner for better fit and warmth. And he told me that they are very comfortable.

The only problem with his setup is that dynafit tech pins can get alot of stress when used 100% for downhill with no heel piece...but we do that all the time anyway when we are ski mountaineering. I'm not sure how durable the binding is when it is setup this way...but I do like it because the short coming of the NNN BC is the bar and insert which can freeze and collect snow...even the manual bindings can break. less chance of Dynafit tech toe pieces breaking on a long demanding route. Also, many tech boots are crampon compatible and they climb better than NNN BC boots...and unless u get the Alfa Guard or Polar, tech boots are generally warmer too...which makes this setup a good choice for a multiday technical climb. So this really has me thinking about what my next setup should look like. But the last thing I need is yet another pair of boots! lol
Last edited by jyw5 on Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.





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lilcliffy
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Crusty

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm

ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:27 pm
lilcliffy wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:44 am
Before I dig into this-
What ski(s) are you using in breakable crust at the moment- and what about them is/isn't working?
We had a very good winter from late January and on. The January thaw has been a typical occurrence as long as I've lived here. Crust hasn't been an issue till the last couple of weeks. It is still getting close to 0°F here every night (though that is supposed to change after today). I've primarily been skiing on my Fischer Excursion 88s. They do not have the splayed tips that Woods had on his skis, but I think they may have rocker on the higher end of normal. As one would expect they break through under foot and back, with the wider, rockered tips consistently trying to ride on top of the crust.
Yes- this is TERRIBLE. And a MASSIVE limitation for BC Nordic touring skis with siginficant Nordic Rocker.
All of theNordic Touring skis that I own that have significant Nordic Rocker are TERRIBLE in breakable crust- examples include: E99 Xtralite; E109 Xtralite; Fischer 78; Fischer 88; Ingstad BC; Storetind Carbon.

The only Nordic Touring ski I own that has Nordic Rocker- that is decent in breakable crust- is the Gamme 54 BC- it has a very stiff shovel-tip, and the rocker is short and low profile. Despite having never tried it- I would bet on the Amundsen being even better than the Gamme 54 in breakable crust (but not as manageable on hills as the Gamme 54).

The non-rockered Combat Nato is a crust-smashing machine.
...........
On the subject of downhill "skiing" in breakable crust-
If the crust is breakable- IMO, the only safe thing to assume is that it is going to break- something I don't want to happen at downhill speeds- especially if I am riding up on top of it, and then it suddenly breaks...(I tore all the soft tissue below the knee in just this situation some 25 years ago- was out of skiing and field work for more than 3 months).

In breakable crust, I only use jump turns- and intentionally, agressively, break the crust- and often resort to low-angle descents and kick-turns.

In my humble experience- downhill skiing in breakable crust is nothing to scoff at- especially in remote backcountry locations. Very dangerous IMO.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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Rodbelan
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Re: Crusty

Post by Rodbelan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:42 pm

Hey, hello to my crusty buddies out there...
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É y fa ty fret? On é ty ben dun ti cotton waté?
célèbre et ancien chant celtique





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Crusty

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:59 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm
The only Nordic Touring ski I own that has Nordic Rocker- that is decent in breakable crust- is the Gamme 54 BC- it has a very stiff shovel-tip, and the rocker is short and low profile. Despite having never tried it- I would bet on the Amundsen being even better than the Gamme 54 in breakable crust (but not as manageable on hills as the Gamme 54).

The non-rockered Combat Nato is a crust-smashing machine.
The combat NATO seems to really be a great design overall. The ones I have are way too short for me so I've been letting my son ski on them. Its hard to find them in an appropriate length. I was considering the Amundsen specifically for crust conditions or the rare times i might ski on groomers or otherwise ski longer distances. The Amundsen is available this side of the Atlantic, so that is a driving factor. I saw some older Fischer Europa 99s on ebay, I wonder if they would also be a viable option for this niche.





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Woodserson
Posts: 2239
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Crusty

Post by Woodserson » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:41 am

jyw5 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:34 pm


And Woods -- that guy with that setup is pretty hardcore. He has climbed and snowboarded some seriously steep lines. And that 27mi route he did this weekend is no joke. There is one section that is pretty sketch especially with the hard windcrusted snow we have now. After seeing his heel riser, it makes me want to switch all of my NNN BC toe pieces.

I like his boots too because these new Phantom boots have a heat moldable shell and they are lightweight yet stiff/supportive, adjustable, and can be used with an Intuition Liner for better fit and warmth. And he told me that they are very comfortable.

The only problem with his setup is that dynafit tech pins can get alot of stress when used 100% for downhill with no heel piece...but we do that all the time anyway when we are ski mountaineering. I'm not sure how durable the binding is when it is setup this way...but I do like it because the short coming of the NNN BC is the bar and insert which can freeze and collect snow...even the manual bindings can break. less chance of Dynafit tech toe pieces breaking on a long demanding route. Also, many tech boots are crampon compatible and they climb better than NNN BC boots...and unless u get the Alfa Guard or Polar, tech boots are generally warmer too...which makes this setup a good choice for a multiday technical climb. So this really has me thinking about what my next setup should look like. But the last thing I need is yet another pair of boots! lol
I can't seem to find the Phantom boot anywhere online. Is it the Photon?

Anyway, I really like how this guy thinks outside the box pairing his equipment from different niches in snow-sliding and then makes it work for him.





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jyw5
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:52 am

Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:06 pm

Woodserson wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:41 am
jyw5 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:34 pm


And Woods -- that guy with that setup is pretty hardcore. He has climbed and snowboarded some seriously steep lines. And that 27mi route he did this weekend is no joke. There is one section that is pretty sketch especially with the hard windcrusted snow we have now. After seeing his heel riser, it makes me want to switch all of my NNN BC toe pieces.

I like his boots too because these new Phantom boots have a heat moldable shell and they are lightweight yet stiff/supportive, adjustable, and can be used with an Intuition Liner for better fit and warmth. And he told me that they are very comfortable.

The only problem with his setup is that dynafit tech pins can get alot of stress when used 100% for downhill with no heel piece...but we do that all the time anyway when we are ski mountaineering. I'm not sure how durable the binding is when it is setup this way...but I do like it because the short coming of the NNN BC is the bar and insert which can freeze and collect snow...even the manual bindings can break. less chance of Dynafit tech toe pieces breaking on a long demanding route. Also, many tech boots are crampon compatible and they climb better than NNN BC boots...and unless u get the Alfa Guard or Polar, tech boots are generally warmer too...which makes this setup a good choice for a multiday technical climb. So this really has me thinking about what my next setup should look like. But the last thing I need is yet another pair of boots! lol
I can't seem to find the Phantom boot anywhere online. Is it the Photon?

Anyway, I really like how this guy thinks outside the box pairing his equipment from different niches in snow-sliding and then makes it work for him.
https://www.phantomsnow.com/products/phantom-slipper

phantom slipper. its very light and looks very supportive. for mountaineering applications it looks like a winner. And versatile as it is intended primarily for splitboarding. But I like the tech fittings and have seen him ski moderate slopes on skinny skis with no problem (but keep in mind he has a strong XC, snowboarding, and mountaineering background)





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QuentinDemo
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:46 pm

Re: Crusty

Post by QuentinDemo » Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:05 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:06 pm
phantom slipper. its very light and looks very supportive. for mountaineering applications it looks like a winner. And versatile as it is intended primarily for splitboarding.
Not to sidetrack the thread with an unrelated question, but this got me thinking: are there any tech boots that come close to matching something like the T4 in terms of K&G / touring efficiency, or is everything in that category so optimized for DH that it's all just different varieties of slow shuffling?





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Nick BC
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:04 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC
Ski style: Free heel Resort/Backcountry
Favorite Skis: Voile Vector BC,Trab Altavia and G3 Stinger XCD
Favorite boots: Scarpa TX and T3
Occupation: Retired Community Planner

Re: Crusty

Post by Nick BC » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:13 pm

Older Scarpa F1’s with the bellows in a base, Carbon and Race model are the only ones that come to mind.





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