Crusty

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YakovL
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Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:50 pm
Location: Magadan, Russia
Ski style: Backcountry skiing/expedition; alpine ski

Re: Crusty

Post by YakovL » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:46 pm

I think there is no difference wich gear you are using on a crust. You break through it sooner or later on day of skiing over differences in thickness of the crust and overloading while turning then fall due to loss of balance. Crust is a problem not only for telemark but for alpine skiing too. They advice break through the crust or go straight and fast and advice use ski that has rocker as big as possible. We cannot do strong jamps to breaking the crust. We can use big rocker and prey)

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jyw5
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:17 pm

QuentinDemo wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:05 pm
jyw5 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:06 pm
phantom slipper. its very light and looks very supportive. for mountaineering applications it looks like a winner. And versatile as it is intended primarily for splitboarding.
Not to sidetrack the thread with an unrelated question, but this got me thinking: are there any tech boots that come close to matching something like the T4 in terms of K&G / touring efficiency, or is everything in that category so optimized for DH that it's all just different varieties of slow shuffling?
I'm probably not qualified to answer, but i think in my experience, alot of it is slow shuffling unless you have good conditions in which you can skate. It also depends on skill level. I have seen great skiiers who can effortlessly skate on an almost flat terrain with an AT/Dynafit setup with heels free on fairly good consolidated snow...but here in Alaska, you will see that anything is possible...as there are some world class athletes...this guy 2 yrs ago was skiing practically naked in May...he only had a pair of shorts on and socks/boots/skis... never seen anyone ski so fast on a low angle slope...wife told me minutes later that she recognized him...he was on the US olympic team in 2018. I think these Phantom Slipper boots have adjustable features which allows for more freedom of movement which may make K&G easier. Don't really know first hand as I don't own a pair (yet).

----------

I also disagree regarding gear performance on breakable crust. I think their is more tactile/feel with leather boots. I am able to weight my skis easier with leather vs. plastic boots. I can confidently go faster on an alpine setup with plastic boots to stay above the crust and turn with power, but if I break through, there is little to no chance of recovery...I will fall down. I may go slightly slower on my nordic gear, but as soon as I break that crust, I can react fast to either stop or change directions to get up and out...I am not able to do that in plastic boots unless I stare at my skis/feet. I wish there was a good way to practice on breakable crust without risk of injury...as there are tons of breakable crust right now to ski on.





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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
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Re: Crusty

Post by lilcliffy » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:00 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:19 pm
The non-rockered Combat Nato is a crust-smashing machine.
As a note-
I reviewed some of my notes from my journal over the weekend-
Though I think the geometry and shape of the Combat Nato makes it a "crust-smashing machine"- my actual records from this winter suggest that the Gamme 54 is even better...

90% of the time the non-rockered shovel and broad-raised tip of the Combat Nato breaks trail like nothing I have ever seen-
However, I had a few turs this winter where for some reason the crust conditions were such that the soft, supple tip of the Combat Nato would bend and ride on top of the crust- leaving the very bottom of the tip- forward edge of the shovel to break the crust- a bit annoying, but still waaay better than a Nordic touring ski with lots of tip rocker.

In the same conditions the Gamme 54 was actually better- the very stiff stable tip-shovel carved through the crust like a sharp stiff spear. Again- if the Gamme had more rocker this wouldn't work.

On the flip side- the Combat Nato is easier to bend and pressure into turns than the Gamme 54- and it breaks trail more effectively in deep snow than the Gamme.

I wonder what the non-rockered Nansen is like in breakable crust...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
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Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
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Re: Crusty

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:46 pm

I wrote a reply, but was logged off before I could post. Most significant point I was going to make. The 88 seems stiffer overall than the NATO, but the rockered tips undermine its effectiveness in crust (it's not actually that bad, but could be better). Would be nice to compare the Gamme to the 88.





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jyw5
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:26 pm

The Skog on steep breakable crust is unusable...at least for me. Nansen probably would perform similar.

I'm thinking Combat Nato is the way to go for variable crust. and a short ski for steep angles.

I was out yesterday on my FT62 in the typical Alaska spring conditions: hard boiler plate at 9am to slush by 1pm. FT62 performed terribly as predicted. The tip slaps against the hard crust causing it to go side to side. It tracked better with skins on but also started to fail as the snow warmed up. Hard sustrugi is difficult to ski on. I skiied 17 miles, 3500ft in variable conditions and found all of its shortcomings. Basically, FT62 is a powder downhill ski. Don't use it for anything else.

The best part of the route had 2 miles, 1000ft+ of windpacked snow with a light dusting on top. smooth in some areas, heavy sustrugi and thin and exposed in others. The FT62 did poorly in this section.

There was excellent crust on a flattish 2mile section that would have been great crust skiing with any other ski...especially MT51 or Skog/Nansen...or just skate NNN.

I plan to go on monday and do the same route but trim off 6miles as the lower elevation downhill section gets way too soft in the early afternoon (i was sinking to my knees in some areas).

I will report again if I go out monday and take pictures and let you guys know how the Skog does. These are 185cm. I plan to bring full 50mm mixed mohair skins and 30mm Mohair Xskins. The bases have some polar and blue wax but temps are starting at 32F and going as high as 50F by 1pm...so I will most likely be using skins for most of the way.





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bauerb
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Re: Crusty

Post by bauerb » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:11 pm

OMG that video LOL. its like every ski video wants to be but can't. love it.





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jyw5
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 am

There was no crust today...alot of mash and slush.

brief report and pics here:

http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 625#p40464





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lowangle al
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Re: Crusty

Post by lowangle al » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:54 pm

I always liked that ski, but the last few times I attempted it I got dissuaded by either the wind or I found snow too good for turns to pass up.

I was up that way last night between 4 and 7 Pm and the only consistently supportable snow was on the snowmachine trail. Too bad things warmed up to record highs, we need some cold nights to get back on track. You must have been out earlier before things clouded up.





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
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Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Crusty

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:45 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 am
There was no crust today...alot of mash and slush.

brief report and pics here:

http://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 625#p40464
My last trip I went to Gov't Peak area again. A little crusty in the beginning and when I got to my turn around (not sure in elevation) it was solid supportive crust with just a little softening on top (dreamy). I only managed to descent a couple hundred feet before I hit mush. It was nearly unskiiable for me on my Vagabonds. Very slow and had to keep my weight back to prevent the skis from plunging. Its interesting to see what skis perform in these conditions (if you know how to ski them). I haven't really understood the role of a ski like the Nansen/Skog, but you seem to get a lot of use out of yours.





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jyw5
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Re: Crusty

Post by jyw5 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:30 am

Yes...its warmed up alot these past few days... You have to get out early morning or ski very late afternoon/evening.


The Skog/Nansen is definitely an all around ski that is perfect for Alaska where our trails are scarred by footprints and bike tires... inconsistent snow, long flat approaches, drastic changes temps/weather, logarithmic steep ascents/descents...

The Skog has been amazing... I think they were bad only 1 time this season...but on that particular day, I don't think any ski setup would have worked well. The Skog really stood out this winter on a beat up hard packed moderate trail...think of archangel from the gate down to the bridge, or Summit Lake -- Willow-Fishhook Rd down to the gate at hatcher, or in anchorage, from Flattop following powerline pass down to prospect heights parking lot. Typically, any generously wide trail that is up to 700ft vertical/mile. I was really able to make quick turns at high speeds more so than any other ski on bumpy hardpack. I am certain some ppl are able to ski even steeper runs on these skis (think Frienship pass, Microdot, Northface at Alyeska, and think Whistler Bowl at Whistler/Blackcomb, etc). In good conditions, the S112 is very capable but not graceful. The FT62 can do it too but require optimal powder. The MT51 is also a good choice for expert skiiers but requires fast reflexes as colliding with even the smallest bumps/crud/potholes can really throw you off.


My conclusion is that the Skog works very well in most situations. It even works well on steep slopes when the snow is corn or well supported soft snow (shallow mash)...especially if you use a kicker mohair skin or a full length mixed mohair for very steep descents (like what would be an easier double black diamond or single black at a ski resort).

I think perhaps a short Gamme 54 (170cm?) may be my next pair of skis. I want a light, stiff cambered ski with less rocker for those windblown crusty days on moderate slopes, refrozen chilly summer mornings, and also groomed runs at ski resorts (which some glaciers weirdly resemble sometimes). I am less concerned with K&G and more concerned about fun/safe descents in variable conditions that do not include deep snow (summer skiing/hiking). ...the long approaches will be slower with short skis, but in many cases, the alternative is simply to A-frame carry the skis.

I have come to accept that I may never be able to ski steep breakable crust nor steep boiler plate on NNN BC setup... I admittingly have some trouble skiing those conditions on an AT setup. And also, I don't really want to! (but those conditions are often times unavoidable in the backcountry).

I'm still left wondering what to do about those dreaded hard suncups and refrozen junk up at Hatcher in June/July. ...the answer may be to ski those only on sunny afternoons when they are soft! What a bumpy ride they are on the S112s!!

I can survive most mountains on the S112 and the most extreme mountains on the S125 (used it for Eklutna Traverse)...I just hate that they kinda suck at everything... jack of all trades, master of none. After skiing on 3 different pairs of Asnes skis this winter, my conclusion is that the Fischer S-Bound series are reliable but not fun.

Thanks for reading! Have a great wk! Look forward to the transition to summer skiing.





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