Amundsen or Gamme?

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lilcliffy
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by lilcliffy » Sat May 01, 2021 10:15 am

ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:23 pm
lilcliffy wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:41 pm
Also- how much of an issue is breakable crust in your context?

I ask this because- aside from breakable crust- the Ingstad BC is the ski you are looking for.
It actually isn't that big of an issue, but when it is, it is a big one. I'm very curious what the Ingstad offers in this context.
The current Ingstad sucks in breakable crust- due to the considerable tip-shovel rocker.
*After re-reading your review on the Ingstad I think I understand. It would definitely be a ski I would like to try and there are some contexts where it would be a lot of fun. My longest tour this winter would've benefited from it on the descent, at least early on. The longest portion of the descent was very gradual on snowmobile trails, which the Ingstad might not be so good for. This does not reflect my typical tour, however, which is described below.
The current Ingstad is no fun and terribly inefficient on a snowmobile track- I only put up with it for short distances.
What I have a lot of, or rather, what I choose to ski on most often, is deep soft snow. Mostly flat or rolling. But with the occasional tree studded hill.
The current Ingstad is stable in deep soft snow- despite its rocker- it has a longitudinaly stable flex (unlike similar-class skis like the E109/Eon- which are totally unstable in deep soft snow). The current Ingstad has a stiffer shovel-tip than the Combat Nato. The current Ingstad is not as longitudinally stiff as the Gamme 54/Amundsen.
At the end of winter it was deep soft snow with a breakable crust. I am mostly looking at this from a XCd perspective, but with the occasional downhill. I have a wide downhill ski for up down laps, I have the Fischer 88 (which isn't terrible in the conditions I've described). I was kind of thinking I wanted to get a narrower (than the 88), fast (when skiing over previously broken trail), waxless ski that is stable for touring in deep soft snow.
The only Fischer waxless ski that would fit this bill would be the Traverse 78- and Fischer needs to make a model that is 10cm longer.
The E99 Crown Xtralite is completely unstable in deep soft snow and absolutely atrocious in breakable crust.
If you want the waxless- Amundsen Fram WL.
Why waxless- wouldn't kicker skins be ideal in this context- when kick wax isn't ideal?

I don't know much about the Finnmark WL- but it surely has a softer tip than the Gamme 54, without steel edges- I doubt that the Finnmark is as good as the Gamme in breakable crust.

If you are only dealing with the occasional downhill I would stongly consider the Amundsen BC/WL over the Gamme 54.

IMO- the primary downhill advantage that the Gamme has is it is lighter- perhaps easier to make step/striding/jump turns than the Amundsen (don't know for sure about this as I don't have an Amundsen to compare).

As far as downhill with the Gamme 54:
- The Gamme 54 does plane at downhill speeds.
- The tip rocker improves turn initiation on consolidated snow.
What I don't want for this context is a ski that bows too much or has a softer, rockered tip that will flex up while the rest of the ski sinks (this problem seems to he magnified in breakable crust).
Well you definitely don't want an E109/Eon.
As I said above the Ingstad BC is great in deep snow- not in breakable crust.
I'm strongly considering some USGI skis until I've generated enough goodwill with the spouse to justify purchasing new skis (I'm leaning toward Gamme at the moment). I'm also thinking of getting a few extra sets of the USGIs that I can loan out to others who might be interested.
Well the USGI ski (MT65) is a great ski- stiff and rock-soild stable- breaks trail like a champ. Very heavy.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by lilcliffy » Sat May 01, 2021 10:16 am

BTW- the fact that you are considering the USGI ski suggests that waxless is not critical for this ski?
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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jyw5
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:52 am

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by jyw5 » Sat May 01, 2021 11:36 am

lowangle al wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:41 am
jyw5 wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:05 am
Have you seen this video/site? it was posted here some time ago. makes me want to retire and just practice my tele turns with full pads on until I'm a badass like Gamme. Those 2 bros are amazing.

https://www.fftv.no/fjellskiskolen-ep-2-svingteknikk-22


Gives you a real perspective on what is possible with Gamme and Nansen skis. I was enlightened after watching these videos and continue to humbly learn and reluctantly fall many many times so that I can someday do those stealthy jump teleturns.
No need to retire Joe, just get a summer construction job, it worked for me.

As far as the skiing in that video, any ski should be able to do that. Skis that are hard to turn always turn when they are off the snow. It's the landing you need to work on. :) I had two sets of XCD=GTs with leather boots out on Tuesday at HP and conditions were perfect for them. The 195s from the mid 90s were a lot better than the 215s from the late 80s but they both worked in that soft snow. I finished the day with T4s and fat scaled skis and much preferred the smoothness and precision of that set up.

I'd be happy to meet up to give you some things to work on if you're interested. I bet I can teach you the jump turn. I met Joe up there on Sunday and gave him some pointers.

I saw a young girl on xc race skis doing little jump turns on the steep section between Gold Cord and Independence mines on Sunday and it was a thing of beauty.
Thanks man. We are going to be up there sometime today. not sure when the next outing is after that. We are cleaning and repairing our house this weekend to get it ready to be listed for sale.

Would be cool to meet up with you guys at some point.





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Sat May 01, 2021 1:35 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:16 am
BTW- the fact that you are considering the USGI ski suggests that waxless is not critical for this ski?
I wrote waxless in my post, but I meant waxable, or maybe my phone auto corrected it. I've really learned about the capabilities and limitations of waxless skis this season and now I want to give wax serious consideration, especially after reading more here on why I've had subpar results with it in the past.





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ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Sat May 01, 2021 2:24 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:15 am
If you are only dealing with the occasional downhill I would stongly consider the Amundsen BC/WL over the Gamme 54.

IMO- the primary downhill advantage that the Gamme has is it is lighter- perhaps easier to make step/striding/jump turns than the Amundsen (don't know for sure about this as I don't have an Amundsen to compare).

As far as downhill with the Gamme 54:
- The Gamme 54 does plane at downhill speeds.
- The tip rocker improves turn initiation on consolidated snow.
I'm assuming it's just the Fram that is heavier, as I though the Amundsen and Gamme were almost identical in weight. I do think that in my context the Gamme wouldn't have much advantage over the Amundsen (I'm thinking Amundsen=slight stability advantage, Gamme=slightly more adaptable to other conditions).

Having light nimble skis that I can take quick steps with would be helpful on the wooded slopes (the main limitation of the Fischer 88). While a narrower ski will sink more (for a given length) than a wider ski, I'm thinking that stability (as in the skis sinks uniformly, rather than the tail sinking to the bottom with the tip pointing up) would help.

This would all be a lot easier if local shops had the skis. You'd think in Alaska of all places. . .





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jyw5
Posts: 252
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Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by jyw5 » Sat May 01, 2021 6:24 pm

ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 2:24 pm
lilcliffy wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:15 am
If you are only dealing with the occasional downhill I would stongly consider the Amundsen BC/WL over the Gamme 54.

IMO- the primary downhill advantage that the Gamme has is it is lighter- perhaps easier to make step/striding/jump turns than the Amundsen (don't know for sure about this as I don't have an Amundsen to compare).

As far as downhill with the Gamme 54:
- The Gamme 54 does plane at downhill speeds.
- The tip rocker improves turn initiation on consolidated snow.
I'm assuming it's just the Fram that is heavier, as I though the Amundsen and Gamme were almost identical in weight. I do think that in my context the Gamme wouldn't have much advantage over the Amundsen (I'm thinking Amundsen=slight stability advantage, Gamme=slightly more adaptable to other conditions).

Having light nimble skis that I can take quick steps with would be helpful on the wooded slopes (the main limitation of the Fischer 88). While a narrower ski will sink more (for a given length) than a wider ski, I'm thinking that stability (as in the skis sinks uniformly, rather than the tail sinking to the bottom with the tip pointing up) would help.

This would all be a lot easier if local shops had the skis. You'd think in Alaska of all places. . .
Nordic BC just isn't popular here. having spent hundreds of days at hatcher and glen alps in the last 5 years...I see 99.9% skate skiiers, a few classic/mostly beginners, and AT skiiers of various levels. I'm ok with that as that opens up more untouched terrain for me to ski for all 12 months.

Asnes skis are truly worth the investment. I think I have an easier time on my S112 only because I have spent so much time on them, but truthfully, they arent that fun to be on. I will use them this summer as rock skis.

I plan to spend all of May practicing teleturns on the Skog and with any luck, will have it down well enough to do some serious steep skiing in June. I think the light Gamme would be an excellent addition to the quiver...especially for the terrain we have...long flattish approaches with variable crappy snow ending in steep ascents. Having seen a few nordic skiiers today ski from Independence Mine parking lot to Friendship Pass, I believe the Gamme would be excellent for the route, although it would still require quite a bit of skill to do it. These skiiers on nordic gear doing this are clearly very experienced skiiers (stats: flattish 1000 ft, 2 mile approach followed by 1000ft for .65 miles up a narrow avalanche trap and then up the bowl). I've only done it later in year (in June and July) when the snow is softer and risk of avy is gone. The S112 does ok on it.

I think the Amundsen is more distance oriented for pulling pulks for long flattish routes where turning isn't important...like skiing to the South Pole for example or the Svalbard Crossing. I wouldn't get that ski. just my 2cents.
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User avatar
ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Location: Alaska, Mat-Su Burough
Ski style: Mixed xcountry offtrack/bc
Favorite Skis: Asnes NATO BC so far
Favorite boots: Still searching

Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ » Sat May 01, 2021 8:06 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:24 pm
Nordic BC just isn't popular here. having spent hundreds of days at hatcher and glen alps in the last 5 years...I see 99.9% skate skiiers, a few classic/mostly beginners, and AT skiiers of various levels. I'm ok with that as that opens up more untouched terrain for me to ski for all 12 months.
I agree. I don't mind it being a niche and I normally ski in places where there isn't a soul around. HP has a really nice range of terrain to ski, but it gets pretty crowded.
I think the Amundsen is more distance oriented for pulling pulks for long flattish routes where turning isn't important...like skiing to the South Pole for example or the Svalbard Crossing. I wouldn't get that ski. just my 2cents.
This seems to be the perception, and its probably true for the Amundsen Fram for sure. The Amundsen BC has only a little less side cut than the Gamme and the weight and flex are supposed to be similar. According to Asnes' description anyway. The slight rocker and slighter greater sidecut on the Gamme should make it turn better on the downhill. This is assuming you're above the treeline. I highly doubt the Gamme would tele turn tightly enough for dense tree skiing (which I do quite a bit). Either ski (similarly to my Fischer 88s) would probably require being light on your feet and doing a lot of step turns and stems.





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lowangle al
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Re: Amundsen or Gamme?

Post by lowangle al » Sun May 02, 2021 11:05 am

With a firm carvable base HP is perfect for skinny skis right now.





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