WAX HELP, PLS!!

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
Yvette
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by Yvette » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:17 pm

I am not an expert telemark skier so I don't post here very often. But I have been cross-country skiing (on logging roads and mountain bike trails) in western MA for about 30 years now. There is much good advice already posted about which waxes will be best when we have snow. But (as you probably already know if you've lived here for a while) what we have most often around here is frozen and thawed slush. We do get those rare days of cold, dry powder where green wax is great and glide wax might be helpful if not completely necessary to help you go faster. But most of the time, grip is much more of a challenge than glide. After several freezing and thawing cycles, hard waxes aren't going to help much and you will need to use either klister or climbing skins or waxless skis. Klister works well (either the universal klister or the red/blue temperature dependent options) but is a mess. I have no experience with climbing skins for cross country usage (only for skinning up to tele down). My concern for using them for cross-country would be durability so others can speak to that issue.

To be honest, probably 50 - 75% of my ski adventures are on waxless skis. Many here complain that they are slow and noisy and that is true -- any time I can get out on my waxable skis, I enjoy the quiet and speed. But more often than not, icy conditions rapidly scrape hard waxes off your skis and then you either have to apply more wax or use your poles for propulsion up hills. Given that you already have your skis, I'd suggest either learning about applying (and removing klister) or consider some of the thinner climbing skins that have been discussed.

User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 2509
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by fisheater » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:39 pm

Hello Yvette, I will admit I am no fan of scales, I just do not like the vibration and noise.
I am becoming quite appreciative of Klister, it works really well. However it is sticky and messy. My method is to have a beer or two, baby powder, a little bottle of Goo Gone, and a rag.
After I complete my tour I open a beer, sprinkle baby powder on the klister and scrape. It takes several applications of baby powder to scrape off all the klister. Sometimes I need to open a second beer. However, I’m usually pretty thirsty after a tour. A little citrus Goo Gone and a rag cleans sticky fingers and anything else the klister drips on.
I enjoy my non-waxless skiing, love the grip and glide offered by klister, and I enjoy my beer while scraping klister. I’m sure white wine would be just as efficient as a klister scraping agent.
Hope this helps,
Bob



User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Northern VT
Ski style: My own
Favorite Skis: Varies,I've had many favorites
Favorite boots: Excursions, T1's
Occupation: I'm occupied

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by phoenix » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:39 am

Lot's of good advice already... and some suggestions that may not prove helpful. I'll just highlight a few key points at the moment, based on decades of waxing, both for myself and in xc/bc/tele shops. Adirondacks and VT.

1)Definitely keep it simple, at least for a start. I'd say pretty much say what Lowangleal offered.You really only need a few waxes to cover you.
2)Polar makes a great base wax (a few light coats, corked in well. I doubt you'll need it much, if at all,as a kick wax in Mass; I seldom need it up here a few miles from Quebec.
3)Don't worry about an iron, you can get one down the road if you want to get more techy. Although if you want, you might have a knowledgeably nordic shop just do a proper hot wax of polar as an initial base prep. Proper means a warm wax/base prep wax first to "clean" the new base, followed by the polar.
4)Klister requires patience, but can make for some wonderful skiing when it's called for. It's a last resort option (see Al's comment on the red. Also see Yvette's post on local conditions.
5)Remember the basics: if your wax isn't gripping, you can try an extra coat of what you're using, then a longer wax pocket (unless you're waxing full length already, which often works very well indeed), or go to the next warmer color if necessary.
6)You can most certainly apply kick wax over glide wax if desired, but I wouldn't worry about glide wax, at least for a start.



User avatar
FourthCoast
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:55 pm
Ski style: 40-Year-Old Poser

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by FourthCoast » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm

phoenix wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:39 am
6)You can most certainly apply kick wax over glide wax if desired, but I wouldn't worry about glide wax, at least for a start.
@phoenix , do you have a link to a video or some instructions for how to do this? The very first thing I tried to do with grip wax was put it on my already glide-waxed skis. It was like trying to write on a greased non-stick frying pan with a crayon. The little bit of hard wax that I managed to get on the ski this way came off almost immediately when I put my ski back on the snow.

After I stripped the glide wax off, and hot waxed on some Polar, the difference was immediately obvious. The blue wax went on and stayed on.



User avatar
Stephen
Posts: 1451
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am
Location: PNW USA
Ski style: Aspirational Hack
Favorite Skis: Armada Tracer 118 (195), Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178), Nordica Enforcer 94
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance, Scarpa TX Pro
Occupation: Beyond
6’3” / 191cm — 172# / 78kg, size 47 / 30 mondo

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by Stephen » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:22 pm

I'm also curious about this concept (glide wax under grip wax).

After a ski is glide waxed, there should be almost no wax left on the ski:
- Hot wax
- Scrape
- Brush

I tried a lot of different techniques last year.
One of them was to glide wax the entire ski, then iron in either polar or base wax in the kick wax area, then apply grip wax.
I didn't keep notes or get scientific about the different things I tried (wish I had), but the above technique seemed to work ok. The thing I always wondered is if the kick wax wore off faster than it would have if I had not applied glide wax under the kick wax area.
It just seemed easier to glide wax the whole ski.

The other thing I did was to not melt (drip) glide wax onto the ski, which seems wasteful, but to rub on a generous layer (which is a bit more work) then iron that even layer in (I would "prime" the iron with a little glide wax to get started).

I guess I'm not one of those KISS personality types -- leave it to me to make the simple complicated...



User avatar
FourthCoast
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:55 pm
Ski style: 40-Year-Old Poser

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by FourthCoast » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:13 pm

Stephen wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:22 pm
I'm also curious about this concept (glide wax under grip wax).
[...]
I guess I'm not one of those KISS personality types -- leave it to me to make the simple complicated...
@Stephen, if you are looking for something more complex to try how about this: https://www.dpsskis.com/products/phanto ... less_glide

I am thinking you can put Phantom on the glide areas only. After letting it cure in strong sunlight for two hours, as required, use grip wax in the pocket. One time permanent glide waxing.

PS:
I am convinced that the 'drip it on' instructions are designed to sell more ski wax. I think rubbing on the glide wax is much less wasteful.



User avatar
phoenix
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:44 pm
Location: Northern VT
Ski style: My own
Favorite Skis: Varies,I've had many favorites
Favorite boots: Excursions, T1's
Occupation: I'm occupied

Re: WAX HELP, PLS!!

Post by phoenix » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:20 pm

Jeesh, didn't realize this might be a mystery. Sorry, no videos or such, but it ain't complicated, or magic. One simple thing to do is have the skis at "room temperature", if you are able to, and the desired wax cooled some... a window sill usually works in ski season, or pop it in the fridge for a while; in general, think warmer ski, cooler wax.

Go light. Just some thin strokes is fine for first layer. Cork it in fairly smooth. Another lightish layer, nicely corked.

Now you're probably ready for a more familiar BC wax layer (or XC, if so inclined)... meaning the base oughta take a thicker coat now if ya want, but again, less is more in application; don't gob it on.

Fear not if you're out somewhere and can't do the warmer ski thing; the key is a light and patient touch to get the foundation started.



Post Reply