It’s a slippery slope…

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Stephen
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am
Ski style: Aspirational
Favorite Skis: Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance
Occupation: Beyond

It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Stephen » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:21 am

Last year I said I was going to be happy with NNN BC and leathers — and I was.
But, then I started seeing additional possibilities — thinking about a little more spice, ability to handle more challenging conditions, confronting the limitations of the combination of my equipment and my ability.

So, I’ve been thinking about what would be a logical addition to my gear to add that missing element.
Current setup includes ALFA Guards, NNN BC, and Gamme, Ingstad, and Voile Objective BC.

The possibilities seem almost endless, and I confess to ignorance and uncertainty, so am asking for points of view to help zero in on a new setup (boots, bindings, skis).

Given the gear I already have, this is really about xcD.
I would like to keep the use-case pretty open, to allow for versatility.
Could include a little lift served, but mostly human-powered ascent.
Not targeting anything particularly challenging — would generally avoid avalanche terrain and danger as much as possible.
Want something able to hadle most snow conditions.
In my imagination, I’m just out skiing whatever there is and having fun, but it’s conditions I would find challenging on my existing gear.
(Of course, if I was a better skier, I could handle some of that challenging terrain on my existing gear, because I have seen expert skiers do amazing things on light gear, that I can only dream about doing.)

Right now, I’m thinking about the 22 Designs Lynx / Scarpa TX Pro / Voile HyperVector BC.
But maybe there are better options?
Maybe this is “overkill,” or maybe not.
Maybe the MEIDJO 3 might be another option.
Or, maybe the X2 and T4 is all I really “need.”

Let me know what you think about any of this (skis / bindings / boots) — I’m thankful for any thoughts or suggestions.

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lowangle al
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Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by lowangle al » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:28 am

Bigger (higher and stiffer) boots are the hardest thing to adjust to IME because they restrict ankle motion. This leads to needing to change your stance and you have to relearn how to get centered again. With the T4 I found that the low cuff gives the same range of motion as my old leather boots and the mechanics of the turn (as far as being centered) are the same but the edge control is way better. I think they will give you the control you're looking for and will tour better then any other plastic boot currently out there.

As far as the perfect set up I would go with the T4, regular SB, and I'd go with the V6 instead of the hyper or ultra vector.

The T4 is probably overkill on all your skis but the objectives and there might be a learning curve jumping up to ski as wide as a vector but for the skiing you do I think it will be a great combo.



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Woodserson
Posts: 2540
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Woodserson » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 am

It's not a slippery slopes, it's the natural order of things.

I agree with Al, tall boots and new bindings will mean changes-- I would invest in a cheap season pass somewhere or set-aside some money for tickets at a local area so you can practice on a regular basis and not waste time when you're out in the wilds of wherever trying to have fun.

If you decide to go NTN: Go all in and Meidjo. At this point the extra cost is a fraction of the total package. Especially if pairing with a "Hyper" ski. If you're getting a Hyper ski it's for weight savings... so save weight! Don't be like the amateur boatbuilder that is going to spend 2yrs and 15k on building a boat but will only use "free plans" because he won't shell out $150 for plans from a N.A. and the end result is a mediocre boat for the same money.

But try NTN boots first-- I am sticking with 75mm because I'm not happy with the lengths available in NTN, and have a better fit in 30.5/31 Scarpas, which is a size not available in NTN. WHICH IS A CRIME, SCARPA

The V6 is a great ski, and I've skied it with T4's and T2's depending on terrain. With what you're describing I'd also go V6. It's such a great ski, it's easier managed, and it'll work better at lower speed and lower angles. The UltraVector is totally awesome! but it's a slightly more aggresive ski. Mellow slopes and sun-kissed afternoons in soft snow? V6 all day, baby.

Personally, at this point I'd avoid the BC and get a waxable base and use skins or grip wax, but that's just me.

My progression was NNN to NNN-BC to leather boots and 75mm to T4's to T2's. I've found that now I'm either in my T2's or my leathers and the T4's are collecting dust. They were very important to my progression, but now either I want power and stability, or I want to have fun on my lightweight gear. But that's me. You need one of everything, of course.



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Tom M
Posts: 148
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Location: Northwest Wyoming
Ski style: Skate on Groomed, 3 pin Off, Backcountry Tele
Favorite Skis: Fischer S-Bound 98 Off Trail, Voile V6 BC for Tele
Favorite boots: Currently skiing Alfa Skarvet, Alfa Greenland 75, Scarpa T2
Occupation: Retired
Website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCam0VG ... shelf_id=1

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Tom M » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:07 am

Aah, the big decision, duckbill or duckbutt. I haven't skied the duckbutt, but I think there is good reason to consider the duckbutt. If and when Scarpa releases a new plastic telemark boot, it will most likely be NTN. If you get set up this year with a new set of skis and 75 mm bindings you will be locked into 20 year old plastic boot designs that will probably never change. Of course, there is nothing wrong with being locked into the past. I've been there forever. :shock:
Last edited by Tom M on Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.



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jarlybart
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 1:07 pm
Location: Oregon
Ski style: Telemark though I do Alpine and Snowboard too
Favorite Skis: Deviation made in Portland or ON3P
Favorite boots: Scarpa NTN though I have a few options.
Occupation: Husband, Father, small business owner and Telemark Ski Nerd. :-)
Website: https://www.skibumsgarage.com/

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by jarlybart » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:16 am

It may seem like a slippery slope but I promise you, it's also a really fun slope! :-)
Free the heel...and then free it again!

Thank you Mitch for all that you did for all of us. You will be missed!



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John_XCD
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:46 am
Location: SLC, UT
Ski style: Powdery aspen glades
Favorite Skis: S-98, ObjectiveBC, Breidablikk, XC race skis
Favorite boots: Alaska+Guard Adv NNNBC

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by John_XCD » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:38 am

Stephen wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:21 am
Not targeting anything particularly challenging — would generally avoid avalanche terrain and danger as much as possible.
Opinion of an NNNBC guy-- I skied Txpro/Ultravector demo last year at Alta for one day. Had a blast and too sore to walk up stairs the next day. But also struggled a bit to transfer my telemark technique. Skiing much more from the thighs/knees (vs from the feet/ankles on NNNBC).

On the lower angle terrain (<30 degree, off piste) that you describe as the primary use -- I get more fun out of the NNNBC (and appreciate that my gear quells any desire to venture into more hazardous terrain). TXpro just feels huge and clunky unless using it in appropriately challenging terrain. T4s or beefy 75mm leathers with cable bindings sound like a better way handle more challenging snow conditions on mellow terrain (sort of in the back of my mind as well....but I tend to usually just seek out the quality snow).

FreeHeelLife in SLC will rent you an NTN demo set up for a very reasonable price to try before you buy.



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FourthCoast
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Ski style: poser

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by FourthCoast » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:52 am

Woodserson wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 am
...
Don't be like the amateur boatbuilder that is going to spend 2yrs and 15k on building a boat but will only use "free plans" because he won't shell out $150 for plans from a N.A. and the end result is a mediocre boat for the same money.
...
Jeez, Woods, I come here to get told that I don't know how to ski. I go to the other website for people to tell me that pile of junk in the back yard is going to sail sideways better than it will go forward.



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Montana St Alum
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:42 pm
Location: Wasatch, Utah
Ski style: Old dog, new school
Favorite Skis: Blizzard Rustler 9
Favorite boots: Tx Pro
Occupation: Retired, unemployable

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Montana St Alum » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:42 pm

I'm pretty much a resort skier now, but used to tour on heavier duty gear. I think, given your description, I'd gravitate toward a duckbill based set up. Unfortunately, when Scarpa decided to stop making the tx, they removed a duckbutt equivalent of the T2 Eco, which I thought was a great boot and might fit in nicely between the T4 (DBill) and the Tx Pro (Dbutt). Going duckbill may give you an option you can't get on NTN.
I think that Crispi has a boot in this category, but they do fit different than Scarpa, and if you can't try one on, I'd pass.

Waiting on Scarpa to come up with new boot designs may be like waiting for the comet Kohoutek to come back!



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Woodserson
Posts: 2540
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Woodserson » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 pm

Montana St Alum wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:42 pm
Unfortunately, when Scarpa decided to stop making the tx, they removed a duckbutt equivalent of the T2 Eco, which I thought was a great boot and might fit in nicely between the T4 (DBill) and the Tx Pro (Dbutt). Going duckbill may give you an option you can't get on NTN.
I think that Crispi has a boot in this category, but they do fit different than Scarpa, and if you can't try one on, I'd pass.

Great point.

I think the Shiver is what you're thinking-- but it's slightly lower cuffed than the T2. The T2 is an amazing boot, especially for lighter less powerful skiers-- walk mode for soft snow and moguls, ski mode for speed and bigger terrain. That boot just doesn't let me down, I feel like it's made for me!


edit: you know Stephen, a pair of noodlely Nomad 95's and some T2's in walk mode... oooooh I can see you all down and dirty, stinking to high heaven, crushing bumps, picking up babes! oooooh



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Stephen
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:49 am
Ski style: Aspirational
Favorite Skis: Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance
Occupation: Beyond

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Stephen » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:43 am

Wow, lots of great comments here.
Woodserson wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 am
But try NTN boots first-- I am sticking with 75mm because I'm not happy with the lengths available in NTN, and have a better fit in 30.5/31 Scarpas, which is a size not available in NTN. WHICH IS A CRIME, SCARPA
I hadn’t picked up on the size cutoff at 30 for the TX Pro — that IS a crime.
I think we have the same size feet (47 is it for me most of the time — I have no experience with mondo sizing).
Now, since I can’t have it, of course I want the TX Pro!
:evil:

Woodserson wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 pm
edit: you know Stephen, a pair of noodlely Nomad 95's and some T2's in walk mode... oooooh I can see you all down and dirty, stinking to high heaven, crushing bumps, picking up babes! oooooh
You left out the part about “in the Swiss Alps!”
Let me check with the wife on this vision of yours…
:lol:

Weighing all the comments, I’m leaning towards:
Hype V6 BC / T2 / X2
The only question would be ski length for my ~ 195 all-up weight (178 or 183?)
I have really liked the freedom from concern for traction that the Objective BC has given me, and am fine with giving up some glide to get that.

Even though @lowangle al suggested T4, he has also said, and I’m paraphrasing, “go big.” Make a big jump from where you are to something new, so you really end up with something different. Along the line of @Woodserson’s T4s gathering dust.

I might still try and find a mondo 30 TX Pro to see if that would fit me, just out of curiosity, but I kind of doubt it.



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