It’s a slippery slope…

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Woodserson
Posts: 2550
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XCD: Asnes FT62, XC: Nansen, E99, Bonna 1800
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Rossignol BCX10
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Woodserson » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:15 am

Stephen wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:43 am
Wow, lots of great comments here.
Woodserson wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 am
But try NTN boots first-- I am sticking with 75mm because I'm not happy with the lengths available in NTN, and have a better fit in 30.5/31 Scarpas, which is a size not available in NTN. WHICH IS A CRIME, SCARPA
I hadn’t picked up on the size cutoff at 30 for the TX Pro — that IS a crime.
I think we have the same size feet (47 is it for me most of the time — I have no experience with mondo sizing).
Now, since I can’t have it, of course I want the TX Pro!
:evil:

Woodserson wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:01 pm
edit: you know Stephen, a pair of noodlely Nomad 95's and some T2's in walk mode... oooooh I can see you all down and dirty, stinking to high heaven, crushing bumps, picking up babes! oooooh
You left out the part about “in the Swiss Alps!”
Let me check with the wife on this vision of yours…
:lol:

Weighing all the comments, I’m leaning towards:
Hype V6 BC / T2 / X2
The only question would be ski length for my ~ 195 all-up weight (178 or 183?)
I have really liked the freedom from concern for traction that the Objective BC has given me, and am fine with giving up some glide to get that.

Even though @lowangle al suggested T4, he has also said, and I’m paraphrasing, “go big.” Make a big jump from where you are to something new, so you really end up with something different. Along the line of @Woodserson’s T4s gathering dust.

I might still try and find a mondo 30 TX Pro to see if that would fit me, just out of curiosity, but I kind of doubt it.
Some people are OK in smaller boots with our foot size re: NTN so you may be totally fine in the 30, but I just don't like it. Your mileage may vary. Telemarkdown Fey Bros have been lobbying me hard to go with a Crispi shell and a Scarpa liner, but I just like my T2's and money is a bit tight right now.

Length wise: I have the V6 178 and 183. The 178 at 160lbs/180 all up is almost too short, but it's really nice here in East Coast trees if I get down and low. It is very compliant and maneuverable. I mount them -3cm from recommended. They have a forward mount otherwise.

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Tom M
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 pm
Location: Northwest Wyoming
Ski style: Skate on Groomed, 3 pin Off, Backcountry Tele
Favorite Skis: Fischer S-Bound 98 Off Trail, Voile V6 BC for Tele
Favorite boots: Currently skiing Alfa Skarvet, Alfa Greenland 75, Scarpa T2
Occupation: Retired
Website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCam0VG ... shelf_id=1

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Tom M » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:33 am

Stephen wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:43 am
Weighing all the comments, I’m leaning towards:
Hype V6 BC / T2 / X2
The only question would be ski length for my ~ 195 all-up weight (178 or 183?)
I have really liked the freedom from concern for traction that the Objective BC has given me, and am fine with giving up some glide to get that.

The Hyper V6 / T2 / SBX2 will give you miles of smiles. I guarantee.



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lowangle al
Posts: 1840
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Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by lowangle al » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:08 am

The T4 might be a little light, depending on your intended use and skill level. My wife and I both were on T2's before the T4's. My wife lost a little stability initially but overcame it after maybe one season. I think the T4 makes it easier to get centered than a bigger boot and I noticed my carving got more precise (although less power)I think because of the better range of ankle motion. To me they made my skiing feel more natural, using more body position for stability than relying on a stiffer boot. I doubt I'll ever go back to my T2s, if I feel I didn't have enough boot for the conditions I would sooner switch to a more narrow ski than a bigger boot.

As far as bindings, I notice a limited ROM with the SBx2 for K&G compared to the regular SB. I felt it with my T2s more than the T4s and less with the T4s when I used to wear them loose. Now that I ski them tighter I feel it again. I do think the X2, T4 is a great combo for increased power for the downhill but I only prefer it for skiining or lift served.



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Tom M
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 pm
Location: Northwest Wyoming
Ski style: Skate on Groomed, 3 pin Off, Backcountry Tele
Favorite Skis: Fischer S-Bound 98 Off Trail, Voile V6 BC for Tele
Favorite boots: Currently skiing Alfa Skarvet, Alfa Greenland 75, Scarpa T2
Occupation: Retired
Website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCam0VG ... shelf_id=1

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Tom M » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am

Moving from leathers to a plastic boot like the T2 will feel very strange and awkward at first, especially if you ratchet every thing down. I'm not a big fan of being locked into the forward lean angle, so I always ski in the walk mode. A lot of old leatherheads have even removed the walk/ downhill mechanism. If you want a more T4 like experience, just leave the upper buckle loose and forgo the power strap.



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Montana St Alum
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:42 pm
Location: Wasatch, Utah
Ski style: Old dog, new school
Favorite Skis: Blizzard Rustler 9
Favorite boots: Tx Pro
Occupation: Retired, unemployable

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Montana St Alum » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:13 am

Tom M wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am
Moving from leathers to a plastic boot like the T2 will feel very strange and awkward at first, especially if you ratchet every thing down. I'm not a big fan of being locked into the forward lean angle, so I always ski in the walk mode. A lot of old leatherheads have even removed the walk/ downhill mechanism. If you want a more T4 like experience, just leave the upper buckle loose and forgo the power strap.
I'm not a fan of excessive forward lean either. That was true when I skied alpine as well. Walk mode is an option, of course. When I get new boots, the first thing I do is adjust the forward lean to be one notch more upright (the boots I've used always have had that option). It's an easy thing to try, is reversible, and may help whether you ski in walk mode or not.



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lowangle al
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Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by lowangle al » Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:25 pm

Montana St Alum wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:13 am
Tom M wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:49 am
Moving from leathers to a plastic boot like the T2 will feel very strange and awkward at first, especially if you ratchet every thing down. I'm not a big fan of being locked into the forward lean angle, so I always ski in the walk mode. A lot of old leatherheads have even removed the walk/ downhill mechanism. If you want a more T4 like experience, just leave the upper buckle loose and forgo the power strap.
I'm not a fan of excessive forward lean either. That was true when I skied alpine as well. Walk mode is an option, of course. When I get new boots, the first thing I do is adjust the forward lean to be one notch more upright (the boots I've used always have had that option). It's an easy thing to try, is reversible, and may help whether you ski in walk mode or not.
Tom, loosening your T2 will give you better forward and backward ROM but not give you as much side to side ROM as the T4. It's the side to side ROM that enables me to roll my ankles that gives me more edging precision. This makes up for the power that the T4 is lacking for me. Besides that, the weight savings is significant, and I happily toured on T2s for years.



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Nick BC
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:04 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC
Ski style: Free heel Resort/Backcountry
Favorite Skis: Voile Vector BC,Trab Altavia and G3 Stinger XCD
Favorite boots: Scarpa TX and T3
Occupation: Retired Community Planner

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Nick BC » Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:21 am

I ski the last generation T3’s, which I bought in 2008 just before they discontinued it. It’s two buckle like the T4, but has a removable power strap. I’ve skied it happily before I took up NTN, on skis up to 92mm under foot (Vector BC’s). It’s probably slightly stiffer than the current T4 based on comments on this site. Interestingly, after I wondered about the efficacy of the power strap, which is just above the top buckle, I removed it on one boot and went for a downhill ski and couldn’t tell any difference in control between the two boots. So the power strap is gone, plus I’ve removed the chintzy rear lever since I always ski in walk mode anyway.

So it’s now a pleasantly light boot, which I use for mellow skis where I don’t need the power of TTS or Meidjos.

So my advice to Stephen would be to jump on any used T3’s which come up. Even the “root beer” original. The blue might be slightly stiffer, since I recall Dostie saying that the scaffo was a T2 of the era with a lower cuff and one less buckle. I find they kick and glide fine for my purposes with the upper buckle loosened off.



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lilcliffy
Posts: 3077
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Storetind Carbon; Madshus Annum; Asnes Comabt Nato
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Crispi Svartisen BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
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Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:07 pm

Hi Stephen!
Very exciting!

My "advice"-

Always start with the boot.
- choose a class of boot for the skiing you are going to be using it for
- choose a boot that fits you properly

I have kept with 75mm because of the old 75mm stuff I have around.
I have tested NTN a number of times- WOW.
If I had truly mountainous terrain in my local backcountry- I would be moving to NTN.
BUT- not if I couldn't find THE NTN boot that fit and suited the intended use.

Regardless- to me the process is BOOT first.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Montana St Alum
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:42 pm
Location: Wasatch, Utah
Ski style: Old dog, new school
Favorite Skis: Blizzard Rustler 9
Favorite boots: Tx Pro
Occupation: Retired, unemployable

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Montana St Alum » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:34 pm

About 10 years ago, I was on the Armada JJ at 185cm and 116mm underfoot skiing them on the T2 Eco. I wouldn't do it now, because I'm just too lazy, but that boot is very capable at the high performance end, and very approachable at the more relaxed end of the spectrum as well. I even skinned up back country on the combo (I was still helping fund a$$holes through grad school, so no money for more appropriate equipment!).

I had a video showing the performance of the JJ, and the first 50 seconds or son are on the T2 with Axls, I think. The point being that you're not going to give up much at all, high end, on the T2. I think the rest of the video is on the Tx (sure wish they'd kept THAT boot) on Freedoms.




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Stephen
Posts: 449
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Ski style: Aspirational
Favorite Skis: Gamme (210), Ingstad (205), Objective BC (178)
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance
Occupation: Beyond

Re: It’s a slippery slope…

Post by Stephen » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:24 pm

@Montana St Alum, you show off!
:D
Yankin’ your chain — wish I had that skill level.
My mind thinks I do, but my body still needs to get on the program!

I haven’t done any lift served Alpine skiing in decades, but have to admit that the memory of the precision and control of that equipment is part of what is motivating my move in this direction.

Interesting that Freeheellife.com offers a package along the lines of what I’m thinking, and what some have recommended.
31454DAF-2BF6-4F72-8643-8FBCBBDDBF76.jpeg
I like the idea of the NTN boot, vs 75mm. REI has the TX, so will give that a try and see if I can fit in a 30. Otherwise, it has to be the T2 in 31.

I’m not sure how to interpret the “Forward lean” numbers? It doesn’t make sense to me that the T2 actually has more forward lean than the TX. It does make sense that the T2 has greater ROM.
A947756E-9C9F-4D70-A556-73CF27A2466C.jpeg
.
Thanks again for all the great comments.
@lilcliffy’s “boots come first” is for sure true, at least for me. If my feet are suffering, nothing else matters.



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