How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

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DoItOnTheSnow
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How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by DoItOnTheSnow » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:22 pm

Hi All, to treat myself this year I got Fischer Excursion 88 Crown/Skin Xtralite 179's and Rottefella NNN BC Magnum Bindings and brought them to the experts at my local REI for mounting.

One of the bindings is about 1/8" from being in contact with the ski. When I picked them up I notices some gap in the under the arch of the foot but the tech assured me he tightened all the screws as much as he could and this is "just how the magnum bindings mount" . Unfortunately it wasn't until a few weeks later I noticed the huge gap at the front.

Before I take them off to see for myself what is wrong in there (Which I have never done although I'm proficient enough with hand tools) I thought I would reach out to get your thoughts on what I might be up against.

Thanks!
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fisheater
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by fisheater » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:07 am

When you screw the screws in, if you take a measure to open the top sheet to the diameter of the screw, it will separate from the core and “volcano” up. If these were my skis, I would carefully remove the screws as I would prefer to use the same holes. I would use a sharp wood chisel to remove the volcano. I would start on one side of the volcano, I do not want to dig into the top sheet. I just want to carefully remove the volcano. It’s a pretty simple process. You just need to be a craftsman about it.
I generally use Titebond III, but I see now that Åsnes recommends polyurethane glue.
If the screws go in tight you’re golden. If a screw doesn’t go in tight, I’ve used steel wool in the hole and tightened the screw down tight. When I’ve done that, I clean out most of the Titebond and use JB Weld.
The above is what I do for myself. It works for me. I weigh 190 lbs and I’m not so gentle on skis.



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FourthCoast
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by FourthCoast » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:41 am

I agree with everything Mr. fisheater said. I found this topic that covers a lot of the same things:

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=3029

I would like to add/clarify two things

1. Use the correct size Pozidriv bit and NOT a phillips to remove the screws.
2. To be clear, I think fish is suggesting that you run a chisel slowly and carefully across the top sheet to slice off the top of the volcano. Think of scraping bumpy ice off a windshield, not chiseling out a chunk of wood.

In my opinion the shop did not mount them correctly. Some material should be removed to prevent this volcano from forming.



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Roelant
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by Roelant » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:44 am

What the others said. Pozidrive 3 screwdriver, suitable glue. No problem, skis will be fine. Try to figure into the same thread cut again when you screw them back in. This was a hastily done job.



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Montana St Alum
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by Montana St Alum » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:47 am

If one ski mount is different than the other, I'd say the technician's claim that that's a normal mount loses credibility. Otherwise, I agree with fisheater's assessment. I see this when I put in inserts into alpine skis/Meidjos. The process of drilling out for the insert creates that "volcano". In my case, I just run a boxcutter blade radially around the hole to remove it, but on your skis, the more careful approach he advocates sounds good.

Once you remove the binding, you could also measure the hole depth/screw length. Maybe they didn't drill it deeply enough. If that's the case, I'd take them back. I've had a bad mount before that resulted in me getting a brand new pair of skis, so if it's that bad, I'd say that's a possibility. REI is generally pretty customer focused.



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Woodserson
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by Woodserson » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:07 am

This is not necessarily a volcano. This happens regularly when mounting NNN-BC bindings and is one of the "traps" of mounting these bindings that first-timers can get sucked into. The nose of the binding will ride up the screw before a volcano can even form. Sometimes it's the side screws. There's sufficient friction interface with the binding and the screw so that the binding rides up as the screw is being driven down and when the binding hits the head of the screw everything stops. It happens with these bindings as the binding case is plastic and slightly flexible.

Again, most likely not a volcano.

Do not remove the two screws under the flexor if the sides are flush with the ski. Get a Pozidrive #3. Remove the nose screw and re-add new glue. Back the screw in backwards until you hear or feel a "click" this will mean your threads will be lined up. Drive it home. The ending will take sufficient down force but everything should settle in place nice and snug.

You are 100% going to want the Pozi, this takes sufficient force.

NNN-BC bindings are actually one of the more challenging bindings to get perfectly right with lots of little gotchas. I have mounted dozens and dozens. If you are in NH I will fix this for you today. Or VT. Or ME. I can help you with this if you're in New England.
Last edited by Woodserson on Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total.



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Woodserson
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by Woodserson » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:11 am

On closer exam it appears one of the side screws is also exhibiting this phenomenon. I would pull the binding if this is the case, clean it up, and replace, keeping in mind to use sufficient downforce pressure at the end. DO NOT REMOVE the two primary screws completely out of the binding. The binding is designed such that the screws cut into the plastic on these two, and if you remove them it will be very difficult to get the threads to line back up again, but if you leave them in they'll be fine.


This tech guy blows ass chunks. EDIT to Add: Man the more I think about this guy the more I want to clean the floor with him. This is not acceptable in any universe.

The slight bowing of the plastic bits to the heel pad is normal. The mounting of the toe piece is not.
Last edited by Woodserson on Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.



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corlay
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by corlay » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:17 am

I agree that, with these Rottefella bindings, as the REI shop explained,
that you might see a small gap at the rear portions of the binding.
(the short silver screws that secure the fore and aft foot plates...)

But the front 3 screws (black, longer treads...) need to be tight and snug to the ski top surface.
This is the portion of the binding/ski attachment that sees the most "force"

For the "volcanos",
After drilling out the pilot holes, I just take a Stanley utility knife blade and slice then off.
Having a neat and tidy pilot hole is pretty important before adding the glue and mounting the binding.

I will also confirm Wooderson's explanation, about the screw "riding-up" on the binding, and making a snug fit a challenge. It can help to clamp the binding down to the ski, before installing the screws.

Another reason for your awful mounting, may be the shop drilled the front screw slightly too close/too far from the double screws at the bar. if the lead screw binding screw-slot does not reasonably align with the pilot hole in the ski, it will cause the screw to angle to the hole, and you will never get a snug connection. If this is the case - return the skiis for exchange or refund.
Last edited by corlay on Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(formerly “coreylayton”)



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FourthCoast
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by FourthCoast » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:25 am

Woodserson wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:07 am
This is not necessarily a volcano. This happens regularly when mounting NNN-BC bindings and is one of the "traps" of mounting these bindings that first-timers can get sucked into. The nose of the binding will ride up the screw before a volcano can even form. Sometimes it's the side screws. There's sufficient friction interface with the binding and the screw so that the binding rides up as the screw is being driven down and when the binding hits the head of the screw everything stops. It happens with these bindings as the binding case is plastic and slightly flexible.

Again, most likely not a volcano.
Woods,

I thought the 'thing' causing the gap at the very front of the binding looked too thick to be just the screw threads. I certainly could be wrong, but, to me, this looks like topsheet material, not screw threads.

source: I have messed up several ski mounts while teaching myself the last few years.
maybe_not_a_volcano.PNG



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Woodserson
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Re: How messed up are my skis after this bungled mounting job

Post by Woodserson » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:40 am

FourthCoast wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:25 am
Woodserson wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:07 am
This is not necessarily a volcano. This happens regularly when mounting NNN-BC bindings and is one of the "traps" of mounting these bindings that first-timers can get sucked into. The nose of the binding will ride up the screw before a volcano can even form. Sometimes it's the side screws. There's sufficient friction interface with the binding and the screw so that the binding rides up as the screw is being driven down and when the binding hits the head of the screw everything stops. It happens with these bindings as the binding case is plastic and slightly flexible.

Again, most likely not a volcano.
Woods,

I thought the 'thing' causing the gap at the very front of the binding looked too thick to be just the screw threads. I certainly could be wrong, but, to me, this looks like topsheet material, not screw threads.

source: I have messed up several ski mounts while teaching myself the last few years.
Yes it could certainly be, for me on my lower resolution circa 2011 monitor it's tough saying with that picture in the shadows. If the OP can see for a fact it's topsheet material then we know. Even volcano or no, the nose and the slight side-tilt is displaying classic characteristic "ride-up-the-screw" behavior, which can happen with or without a volcano. As suggested in my second post I would un-mount and inspect, clean up volcanoes as necessary and as described above (not fully removing to the two primary screws), and then rebed but keep in mind to keep going if the screw stops and there is still a gap between binding and screw.

I really hate that this happens to people. I see this randomly on skis at ski areas too and I just want to fix them all.



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