which fjellski?

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Krakus
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:14 am
Location: Southern Poland
Ski style: many falls
Favorite Skis: Tua Grande Neige :), Asnes Nansen, Salomon XADV89
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard, Fischer BCX675

which fjellski?

Post by Krakus » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:36 am

I would like to hear your opinion on what ski can meet my expectations od adding some speed to my mountain trips.
I ski mostly in our Polish Beskidy, which are not far from my home town. They are not very high, with most peaks 1000-1200 m. What is characteristic for skiing there are long stretches of relatively not-to-steep terrain, like going along river valleys, mountain rigdes (little yo-yoing) or gently sloped forest roads (as in my avatar photo). Thera are also steeper parts, but ther are rather in minority (of course, everything depends on route choice). Snow conditions are variable, from fresh snow to breakable crust and wet snow, depending on weather. Breaking a trail is not very often needed, many people go there.
Skis that I normaly use are: 200 cm old Tua Grande Neige, 200 cm Nansens. I find them quite satisfying as for my downhill expectations, but what I miss is some more speed on these flats or gentle roads, as they are single cambered (well, Nansens have a second chamber but not worth mentioning). I do not have much experience with true double-cambered skis. The only one I have are 195 cm waxless Glittertinds, to short for my weight (92 kgs at present, no clothes), so I am able to shuffle them instead of true k'n'g - although I found them suprisingly fine for turning of groomed tracks etc.
I am thinking for quite a time about other Asnes fjellskis. First, I considered Gamme, but after browsing through several posts I realized that they are rather suited for flatter terrain or hills - is that true?. Although I would like to go faster on flats, I still need firm grip on steeper parts. So, maybe Ingstad or new Sverdrup would be my dream ski?

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fisheater
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: which fjellski?

Post by fisheater » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:11 am

Where I live we have glacially deposited sand and gravel hills. Nothing like the mountains you ski. However our hills can be steep, even though they are short. Back in my resort skiing days my friends and I skied hard all winter in Michigan, and were not in the least intimidated by western terrain those years when we traveled west.
Well, those days ended and now i mostly trail ski. The trails are up and down and twisty. I really enjoy my Gamme (210 cm) on these trails. Now I’m not sure I would enjoy the Gamme in deep powder on those trails. When I get deep powder I grab a more turn oriented ski and ski straight downhill on those few open hillsides, and places the trees are spaced enough to allow me to make turns.
The reason I doubt Gamme in deep snow is that I do make a lot of step turns on Gamme. I doubt I will be testing Gamme in deep snow anytime soon. I have a Falketind and a Tindan, and I greatly enjoy the days I can take them out. However I really enjoy my Gamme the rest of the time. It’s fast, it handles so nice! I’m 190 lbs/86 kilos and I think it climbs nicely.
I hope this helps. Woodserson and Lilcliffy have much larger quivers of skis than myself. Gamme is my fjellski, it does what I need, and it goes fast!



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lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: which fjellski?

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:59 am

Hello Krakus!

My recommendation is for an "E99 class" ski- of which the Glittertind you mention (at least the models I have tested) fits in that class.

With the skiing context you describe- it certainly matches the terrain of my week-day backdoor turs.
Sounds like I get a lot more snow than you do, but extreme temperature fluctuations and rain and ice even in mid-winter are now the norm here- even in interior New Brunswick.

When I say "E99 class" ski I am speaking of a backcountry Nordic ski with an effective double-camber resistance underfoot, but is tuned for backcountry snow (i.e. not tuned for the groomed track).

E99/TN66/Glittertind/BC55/Gamme 54

The other class of ski to consider is the even narrower and faster BC skis- that perform better in and out of groomed tracks.

If breakable crust is a common issue- any ski with significant tip rocker is a nightmare (e.g. E99/TN66 Xtralite).

The Sverdrup ski certainly has the camber and resistance underfoot to be a very effective XC K&G ski. It has more sidecut and a very different rocker-camber, geometry and flex pattern compared to the Gamme 54.
Though I haven't strode on the Sverdrup yet- for my intended use I want to be able to easily pressure it on steep hills, especially on consolidated snow.
If one is considering the Sverdrup for the skiing context you describe- gentle to moderate terrain- lots of XC skiing at speed- then one would want a long Sverdrup- the longest one can handle- and then I would be reaching for the Gamme instead- especially if one is dealing with a lot of breakable crust.
The Gamme has a stiff raised tip, with low-profile rocker- it is a very good ice buster.
I am expecting the Sverdrup to be terrible in breakable crust.

For the skiing you describe- the Gamme 54 would be my top pick.
The Gamme 54 is my #1 daily striding ski.

Are you looking for a wax ski or are you also considering waxless-scaled base for this ski?
Gareth

BTW- the other ski you might consider is the Amundsen...I just bought one- it is magnificent and is going to be even faster than the Gamme 54...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Musk Ox
Posts: 507
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Re: which fjellski?

Post by Musk Ox » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:07 am

Krakus if the first reviews of the Otto Sverdrups come in and everyone agrees they're a pile of shite, I'll laugh for a fortnight solidly. But that's unlikely, so if the rumours are true it's probably a pair of those you're after!

I say this because they look like they might offer more control than the Gammes going downhill, and if I understand correctly, control's what you're after?

I can tell you what I think of the Gammes, though.

Where I ski, we have the opportunity for a lot of exploring on 'flats' and flat-ish's (valleys and plateaux) with lots of nice hills and the opportunity to do many 'proper' peaks of different kinds if you want. It's a pretty mountainous place. I find the Gammes easier to control on deeper snow than on harder snow, which is probably no surprise, and don't think twice about using them for climbs. I'm about 79kg without a pack and have the 200s.

I'm more eager than I am skilled, put it that way, but really enjoy the opportunity to pull out the Gammes for longer trips. They are fast, and therefore fun. I prefer them on unbroken trail to the Nansens if the snow's deep and flat because they support you and arrow you across the void (albeit the Nansens are my favourites because they just make me smile so much). Gammes are really great fun. I think they're good tree-dodging on steep hills, especially so in deeper snow.

There are categorically places I wouldn't want to take them. I'm really looking at Ingstads and wider skis, which might make my Nansens my afternoon fun skis.



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Krakus
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:14 am
Location: Southern Poland
Ski style: many falls
Favorite Skis: Tua Grande Neige :), Asnes Nansen, Salomon XADV89
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard, Fischer BCX675

Re: which fjellski?

Post by Krakus » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:32 am

Gareth,
Waxable, definitely. However, waxing became more difficult here as winter temperatures rose. Last years, it ralely dropped below -10C. In spring, kick waxing is a nightmare, I hope short skins will do.
Amundsen, I think, will be too stiff. After all, some turnability is necessary, for those more inclined stretches.



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fisheater
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: which fjellski?

Post by fisheater » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:14 am

Krakus wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:32 am
Gareth,
Waxable, definitely. However, waxing became more difficult here as winter temperatures rose. Last years, it ralely dropped below -10C. In spring, kick waxing is a nightmare, I hope short skins will do.
Amundsen, I think, will be too stiff. After all, some turnability is necessary, for those more inclined stretches.
I’m a bit of an outlier, but in southern Michigan we have poor waxing conditions quite frequently. I ski frequently on wet mush and refrozen glacier. I am becoming quite a klister fan, because it works so well. The second reason I may like klister so well is I’ve come to the conclusion that it must be scraped after the ski. I use baby powder and scrape. I usually enjoy a beer when I do my klister scraping. However klister works so well, so often that I find myself extra thirsty. It may take two beers then to scrape my skis clean. I want to be clear it is my belief this is due to ski performance encouraging greater exertion and speed while skiing, rather than greater difficulty scraping klister!



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lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: which fjellski?

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:25 am

Yes klister- another example of Nordic Magic! BUT- NOT compatible with the skin!

Well- the Gammes do turn- fully-pressured they actually carve a beautiful arc- though they have a very wide turn radius. The Gamme is very longitudinally-stiff- much like the Amundsen- which offers superb stablity and load-bearing capacity- the Gamme is remarkably stable- even in very deep snow (for such a narrow ski).
However, bending the Gamme into a tighter arc is not really doable- as it is so stiff.
Pressure the Gamme and put it on edge and it wants to CARVE.
That being said- the Gamme is so light, I can easily make tight striding/step/jump turns when I need to avoid a tree, or make a tight turn down a steep densely-wooded trail.
The tip rocker on the Gamme does improve turn-intiation and planing at dowhill speeds.
(I certainly expect the Sverdrup ski to be easier to turn and have a tighter turn radius than the Gamme).

The Amundsen is almost straight and has a full-length, stiff resistant camber- not the stuff for pressuring into turns!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



User avatar
Krakus
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:14 am
Location: Southern Poland
Ski style: many falls
Favorite Skis: Tua Grande Neige :), Asnes Nansen, Salomon XADV89
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard, Fischer BCX675

Re: which fjellski?

Post by Krakus » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:03 pm

fisheater wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:14 am
I am becoming quite a klister fan, because it works so well.
There are many problems with spring waxing here. One is that klister quickly becomes very dirty, with needles, dust etc., and looses its stickiness, so frequent re-application is neccessary. The other is icing in changing conditions, like warm sunny patches and cold shades. Suprisingly, I experience icing in warm areas.



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