Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Hi everyone, I’d love to get feedback about the Alpina Discovery 80 (80/58/69) for XCd (only low-slope downhill, more XC). Has anyone skied that, and how does it compare to the following: Fischer Traverse 78, Fischer Excursion 88, Fischer S-bound 98, and Rossignol BC-90?

How does it perform (relative to the others above) in icy or crusty, melted and refrozen conditions, on ungroomed forest service roads (on gentle slopes that are easy in good snow but challenging on hard snow)?

I'm a beginner, and I currently don’t do zig zag turns, only turn to avoid snowshoe tracks or bumps, or follow a curvy road, and when skiing in an empty campground I turn slightly to avoid trees and rocks and picnic tables etc.. I ski backcountry but nothing steep, and always ungroomed

Does it work well with 3-pin bindings and Alpina Alaska 75 (or an old soft-from-age Fischer BCX 675)? Does it have good glide, good grip, and good control and stability? How well does it handle slight bumps or occasional uneven terrain? Does it offer more or less control, edging ability, or stability than the Excursion 88 or Traverse 78, or other options I mentioned above?

I've included a picture of an example of the terrain I ski.
If I get this, it would be part of a 2-ski quiver (the other being for deeper snow, probably S-bound 112).

Also, are there all-mohair skins that can be effectively used with this ski (which I'd only use occasionally, on the iciest days only for low-angle forest service road slopes)?

I did do a search of ski reviews and saw many mentions, and reviews of similar items, but no reviews specifically of this item.

Thanks!

I have not had the opportunity to ski the Discovery 80 on hard ice, only Spring soft snow conditions. The Alpina rep told me that the Discovery 80 and the Pioneer 80 were essentially the same ski. The Discovery 80 would work fine mounted with NNN, NNNBC, Xplore, or 3 pin bindings. The skis do not have a slot for a kicker skin, so if the traction pattern is not working and skins are needed, the only option would be a strap on kicker skin, or goop the scales up with a klister. https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/e ... cker-50mm/

Johnny's detailed review:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... =discovery

In general, it is easier to edge a narrow ski than it is a wide ski, especially with soft leather boots. Julie always picks her Karhu Odyssey skis (67-55-60) @ 175 over her Excursion 88's (88-68-78) @ 169 when skiing hard packed and fast trails. The Odyssey's are the oldest skis in her current quiver. I'm guessing they are circa 2000. It is her go to ski for a Forest Service road that we ski that has a 500 foot elevation drop over 3 miles. I often blast down the road on narrow skis at full speed (no turns required) while she checks her speed with a snowplow. The point here is that she picks the narrow ski with metal edges when she needs to snowplow. In my opinion, most of the skis from various brands with similar dimensions and camber ski pretty much the same. I'm often amused and impressed by others who can decern the finite differences between similar skis of various brands. I tend to just make what is on my feet at the time work and not over analyze the equipment. Snow conditions can vary so much that there are times when any ski will be perfect and other times when the skillset, ski equipment, and snow conditions just aren't talking to one another, and the best we can hope for is to survive the outing. I'd be happy skiing the 78's, 88's, or Discovery 80's on the Forest Service Road shown in your photo, with the realization that there might be conditions where it would just be a good idea to wait for better conditions, especially if falling could cause some bodily harm. Here are two photos for comparison, both taken on Forest Service Roads on soft warm snow. As a side note, when you do get set up, post a photo with you on your new equipment. A big smile will let everyone know that you found your way out of this equipment maze.

Julie Skiing Excursion 88's Me on my Traverse 78's

I’ve used my Discovery 80’s for for all kinds of different terrain. Cruising fire roads or rolling terrain such as what you depicted is a real delight. They don’t like the glazed track of a snowmobile much (unless there’s fresh powder in them). I haven’t had much in the way of traction issues doing moderate climbing (I wax them to conditions which makes for smoother performance).

I use Alicos and Alpina Alaska 75mm with them- the Alaska’s are way better for maintaining control. I messed around with Garmont Liberos when I was trying steeper terrain but quickly decided I’d rather not damage myself pushing the ski to do stuff it’s not meant for.

Good ski, I’d buy them again.

Thanks Inspiredcapers and Tom M!

The Alpina Discovery that you like -- which year is it from?

Also, for a ski this narrow, would folks recommend a lifter plate for the bindings for better edging? (and what is a good source for lifter plates)

My hesitation with Alpina Discovery 80 is that, as I recently remembered, it was my partner's first ski (2015), but it slipped out from under her every time (in a flat meadow). Granted, she's even more of a beginner than I am, and she got the longest length (still following the weight chart as she's twice my weight). And my length at 130 lbs is 186, just ~20 cm shorter than the one a 250+ lb person slipped on, and almost 20 cm longer than the length for my weight of most other skis I'm considering. Wondering if that length would make it less controllable than the 169 I'm used to.

After 3 or 4 skiing attempts she ended up quickly exchanging Alpina Discovery for a Rossi BC 110 back in 2015 (and even the not-so-great grip of the Rossi was better than the Alpina Discovery 80 in 2015).

So her slippy 2015 Alpina Discovery 80 experience gives me pause on buying the current one. But then I heard the Alpina skis change a lot through the years.

Wondering if the grip/traction on the current Alpina Discovery is as good as it is would be on the Fischer Offtrack 78/88/98, and better than my old 2015 Rossi BC-90's?

Also, regarding skins, are EZ skins way easier to apply and take off than kicker skins? is one type more likely to glide easier than another?

Thanks!

The Offtrack Crown is the best pattern hands down.
Yes EZ Skins or. X Skins are way nicer than attaching kicker skins.

Ira, you are really parsing hairs with these skis. I'm going to level with you.

They are all XC skis. They are made to go straight and be bit wider underfoot for support in weirdo snow. They turn terrible. To learn to turn them will take practice and hard work and skill. I can do it after many years and guess what? I hate them for turning . They suck at it-- and that's on groomed snow! Snowplow and snowplow turning will be the best way to turn these and at that they will all be act the same.

They are so similar the older Alpina 80 and the Fischer 78 were the same exact ski. Riel and I measured them, took calipers to them, flex tested them, same ski, same factory. The only difference was the Offtrack Crown which I liked the best. This was a model from a few years ago before things changed last year and Fischer and Alpina were being made in the same factory.

Don't sweat these little nuanced differences. Get a ski with good grip, at the correct length for your weight, and go skiing on these beautiful roads. Snowplow when you get going fast and you'll be good.

You definitely won't need risers.

Your biggest problem is going to be availability.

Tom M wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:07 am

I n my opinion, most of the skis from various brands with similar dimensions and camber ski pretty much the same. I'm often amused and impressed by others who can decern the finite differences between similar skis of various brands. I tend to just make what is on my feet at the time work and not over analyze the equipment. Snow conditions can vary so much that there are times when any ski will be perfect and other times when the skillset, ski equipment, and snow conditions just aren't talking to one another, and the best we can hope for is to survive the outing. I'd be happy skiing the 78's, 88's, or Discovery 80's on the Forest Service Road shown in your photo,

THIS TIMES A MILLION

@Ira, I will take the liberty of adding to what @Tom M and @Woodserson have said.

The relevant point here is that the advice has gone about as deep as it can go.
You may still be feeling unsure about making a decision, but it’s unlikely we are going to be able to help with that.

Believe me, many of us go through the same sort of tortured deliberation about equipment, only to finally get to the point that we realize there is no perfect answer, and we just have to make a choice and move on (that’s sure true for me, at least). Otherwise, it becomes analysis paralysis, with no resolution.

And if you really feel like you are not resolved about which setup you want, then maybe wait until you are. Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do. The gears will keep turning in the background, and at some point it will be clear what you want to do.

I hope you hit on a setup that works for you. Maybe try laying it out on paper — pluses and minuses. All the factors you can think of, and see if that helps clarify things?
Wish you the best!

And if you have questions about things that haven’t been covered, I’m sure people will help out.

I agree with all the comments from the experienced members of our group.

I will add some advice...as someone who started this sport in 2015/2016...

ski with what you have...learn and adapt to the weaknesses of the ski setup and use the strengths to your advantage.

I hate/love my S112. Its so slow on flats. It barely grips on ice (and most of the time, not at all). I have to use skins to slow things down to compensate for my poor turning abilities and slow reaction time. But I also love them because I can make beautiful parallel turns when the conditions are good. They are light on my feet and comfortable even after 8 hours on the snow. I can carry them strapped to my backpack for hours in the summer months.

Skis and skiing are like a relationship...never ever perfect. learn to deal with the good and bad. and mostly, don't be discouraged by the bad...identify then learn how to overcome those issues...whether its the skis, the conditions, or the skiier...many times, it will be unresolved but thats ok. As Woods said, it takes many years...

...and most importantly, have fun.

jyw5 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:19 am

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Skis and skiing are like a relationship...never ever perfect. learn to deal with the good and bad. and mostly, don't be discouraged by the bad...identify then learn how to overcome those issues...whether its the skis, the conditions, or the skiier...many times, it will be unresolved but thats ok. As Sensei Woods said, it takes many years...

...and most importantly, have fun.

Jeez, pretty soon we will have to fit the work “Zen” into the forum name…