Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Life is defined by a string of low stance tele turns step-dancing down a steep powder slope. But at the end of the day the mountain is skied off, all that's left is crud, wind-blasted groomers and a pair of legs that cannot take it anymore. You're spent, you just want to make it back to the bottom without pulling a muscle or breaking something. What turn do you use?
Yada yada yada everyone sings the praises of the alpine turn, the p-turn, the fixed heel turn...easy enough to do p-turns on free heel, at least weighting the back of your skis. (I have never been able to put all my weight on the front of my skis with free heel bindings...though I have tried!) But is there a better option? Can it be even easier?
Maybe the type of turns one mocks as being beginner mistakes actually make the most sense here. The fake-a-mark, executed by initiating the turn with the outside ski but letting it quickly slip back into p-turn configuration as soon as the edges engage, can be easier to execute than a standard p-turn, at least in choppy snow at slower speeds.
Another option is the reversamark, basically a lazy p-turn, letting the outside ski slip even further back so the heel lifts.
No good reason not to keep them in your quiver of possible skiing styles.

Welcome back Baaahb I hope all is well.

There are times when you want to heavily weight the lead ski that wouldn't be considered a fakeamark in my book. I don't see any reason why you can't combine a P turn and a T turn with good results, as long as it works for you.

Baaahb wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:42 pm

You're spent, you just want to make it back to the bottom without pulling a muscle or breaking something. What turn do you use?

In the case of that last run at the resort, I just make lazy alpine style turns in the flats. If you are on the Rottefella Freedom binding, the heel is just a little lower than the toe, so weight distribution for this kind of turn is pretty easy, as in there's no need to have excessive weight on your heels. I'm now on the Meidjo and the foot is level on that, but spring engagement is fast, so weight on the balls of the foot is comfortable for an alpine turn. I'd guess this is an advantage that most NTN setups have. No rocker launch.

If you are making that last run on a three pin set up in chopped up backcountry conditions, well, may God have mercy on your soul! And your thighs.

But I think the bottom line is that sometimes, if you're not cheating, you're not trying, so whatever works best for you is the right answer.

For my tele beginnings, I had heard of the fake-a-mark, but had never seen it... soooo, I was probably the one doing it.

Old Dickie Hall would say: «even an absence of technique (like gorilla turns) is... technique». It is all technique; sometimes, it is not as efficient though... If Fake-a-M works in certain situations, then it is a technique worth considering... I have a friend that comes from alpine bground; he does that (F-a-M) all the time... He is having fun...

I don't think Baaahb is talking about true fakeamarking. He's just initiating the turn with a heavily weighted lead ski and then going into a P turn to save his legs.

I think what Dickie also said about fakeamarking was that it'll "melt your gortex."

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:09 am

I think what Dickie also said about fakeamarking was that it'll "melt your gortex."

I was worried that it'd make me go blind.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:09 am

I don't think Baaahb is talking about true fakeamarking. He's just initiating the turn with a heavily weighted lead ski and then going into a P turn to save his legs.

??? what's your definition of F-A-M?

FAke a mark is when you are not centered and are putting too much weight on the lead ski. What you described sounded more like you were initiating the turn with a heavily weighted lead ski and falling back to the telemark position. If you are pretty well centered it’s not necessarily a fakeamark. If you’re not centered it could be a FAM.

I used to heavily weight the lead ski to initiate turns. It was fun but hurt my knees.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:47 pm

FAke a mark is when you are not centered and are putting too much weight on the lead ski.

No objections to this.

F-A-M that stands out to me is when that uphill-trailing ski is just dangling back there, hitching a free ride, and not doing any work. To me, tiptoe rear foot may not aways be F-A-M, but F-A-M usually has tiptoe rear foot.

The "fakeness" is that the body is in genuflection, but it's just not tele.

IMHO... snow, gravity, acceleration, fun, smiles... this the important stuff. As snooty as my F-A-M standards must sound above, my spirit for tele is not about being being perfect or meeting a standard... I'll give respect for anyone making descent on tele. It's challenging. Beginners get respect for persevering through the tough times. Seasoned skiers get respect for honing the craft.