Rottefella 75mm with cable binding- riser or no riser?

[DG99]

That’s tremendously odd that the holes don’t align as there isn’t different non compatible Voile 3 pin bindings AFAIK

[Jurassien]

@Jurassien Thank you! Believe it or not you have given me the confidence to order the 10 mm risers. If I’m wrong someone will get a good deal on risers!

I’m glad my pictures inspired someone, as they certainly didn’t inspire me! In photo #3 (20mm riser) alignment is perfect – rings are concentric, like little bullseyes. In photos #1 and #2 (10mm riser) it looks like someone rolling up their eyes in exasperation – as I did when I discovered this.

You can have a good deal on mine……..kidding, of course, as postage to US would be prohibitive.

I thought from your earlier post that you were considering mounting either the Super Telemark or the 75mm Cable on the 10mm riser. If so, check that the dealer will let you exchange for the 20mm if things don’t work out as expected. You can have 100% confidence that those two bindings will fit on the 20mm riser.

In any case, let us know how you got on with the mounting.

[Jurassien]

All saddled up and ready to go. Lever in downhill-mode:

Good confidence-inspiring connection between lever and boot:

“Normal” touring-mode, with lever latched under lip of heel-piece:

Transport-mode, with lever clamped under heel-lift bar:

Glad I ordered both 10mm and 20mm at the same time. The 10mm was a non-starter, although it is considerably lighter and the pin-line was on point of balance, just like the Rottefella 10mm riser. The 20mm pin-line is slightly forward of POB.

I could, of course, have re-used the Rottefella 10mm riser, but I didn’t want to go into the same holes and I wanted the flexibility of being able to latch the lever when in normal touring-mode and not have the cable flopping about in transport.

I already have this cable on another ski, also with 20mm riser, but as yet I haven’t used it on tour – only for piste skiing with a leather boot. It works very well for that and I prefer it to the Voilé binding, but I’m surprised at people saying that it works well with their plastic boots. I have two different plastic boots and I had a hell of a time getting them in and out of this binding. Again, as is the case with the Voilé 10mm and 20mm risers, this is a bit of an anomaly, as both plastic boots mentioned fit perfectly in the Rottafella Super Telemark binding - which, theoretically, has basically the same 75mm front-plate as the 75mm Cable binding.

Moral of this story: Don't make assumptions and always check compatibility. If you purchase remotely, make sure the retailer will exchange or refund if things don't turn out as expected. As I intended to use this rig only with leather boots, the difficulty with the plastic boots is irrelevant.

[Woodserson]

That’s tremendously odd that the holes don’t align as there isn’t different non compatible Voile 3 pin bindings AFAIK

I'm sorry I missed this because I think I know the answer, from personal experience.

The reason the 10mm Traverse Voile Riser Ball-of-Foot pad is slightly forward and misaligns the Rott binding to the Voile pad, is I think, intentional, and to prevent you from using the 10mm riser with Rott bindings.

The reason is that the Rott screws for the binding are longer than the riser is deep, and when screwed down tight the screw hits the ski and either breaks the topsheet or raises the entire assembly up off the ski. The shorter Voile screws, conversely, don't fit in the screw-head cups correctly on the Rott binding.

I have shaved the Ball-of-Foot pad on my 10mm Traverse risers and installed the Rott ST Cable on them and this is exactly what happened to me. oops.

Of course using the Rott binding on the 20mm riser is fine, and everything lines up.

The difference of location of the ball-of-foot pad between the two risers is beyond chance, I think, and Voile did this on purpose to discourage using Rott bindings on the Traverse 10mm riser specifically.

[fisheater]

That’s tremendously odd that the holes don’t align as there isn’t different non compatible Voile 3 pin bindings AFAIK

I'm sorry I missed this because I think I know the answer, from personal experience.

The reason the 10mm Traverse Voile Riser Ball-of-Foot pad is slightly forward and misaligns the Rott binding to the Voile pad, is I think, intentional, and to prevent you from using the 10mm riser with Rott bindings.

The reason is that the Rott screws for the binding are longer than the riser is deep, and when screwed down tight the screw hits the ski and either breaks the topsheet or raises the entire assembly up off the ski. The shorter Voile screws, conversely, don't fit in the screw-head cups correctly on the Rott binding.

I have shaved the Ball-of-Foot pad on my 10mm Traverse risers and installed the Rott ST Cable on them and this is exactly what happened to me. oops.

Of course using the Rott binding on the 20mm riser is fine, and everything lines up.

The difference of location of the ball-of-foot pad between the two risers is beyond chance, I think, and Voile did this on purpose to discourage using Rott bindings on the Traverse 10mm riser specifically.

So, I am assuming you then had to drill the topsheet? My 10 mm risers arrived yesterday. I plan on reinstall my Rotte ST on the 10 mm riser

[Woodserson]

Yeah, you could do that. It doesn't raise the riser much, a few mm, so sealing for water prevention would be important as the screw isn't going to go deep into the ski. Maybe file down the screw tips a bit, that could work too.

I passed the risers through the table saw to knock off the 5mm of the pad so the binding could match the holes. Pretty easy and quick, though I lost one and sent it wizzing across the garage at mach 3.

[Jurassien]

The reason is that the Rott screws for the binding are longer than the riser is deep, and when screwed down tight the screw hits the ski and either breaks the topsheet or raises the entire assembly up off the ski. The shorter Voile screws, conversely, don't fit in the screw-head cups correctly on the Rott binding.

Interesting hypothesis, so I got the caliper out to have a closer look. On the Voilé 10mm riser the two rear binding holes have a depth of 10.12mm (left hole), 10.20mm (right hole) and the front hole, as the front of the riser is higher, measures 12.36mm in depth. In the case of all three holes, an average of 10 measurements was taken. The screws supplied with the Rottefella Super Telemark, when placed in the holes and held firmly in place, protrude 10.56 (left hole) and 10.20 (right hole). Again, an average of 10 measurements was taken and I didn’t bother with the front hole, as the riser is more than deep enough at that point. The Rottefella-supplied screws have an overall (outside measurements) length of 13.70mm. You are therefore correct to point out that the Rottefella screws are longer than the depth of the Voilé 10mm riser, albeit not by much (0.45mm).

However, the depth of the riser and the length of the Rottefella screws and whether they will “bottom out” is not the critical point. Critical is the mis-alignment, which is why I would not mount that riser on my ski.

The reason the 10mm Traverse Voile Riser Ball-of-Foot pad is slightly forward and misaligns the Rott binding to the Voile pad, is I think, intentional, and to prevent you from using the 10mm riser with Rott bindings.

The difference of location of the ball-of-foot pad between the two risers is beyond chance, I think, and Voile did this on purpose to discourage using Rott bindings on the Traverse 10mm riser specifically.

I beg to differ with you on this. The attached photo is of the little card included in the 10mm riser package. It states quite clearly: “Accepts all 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces”. As there aren’t a myriad of 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces on the market, it is reasonable to assume that the Rottefella Super Telemark/75mm Cable bindings are covered by the “accepts all”.

[Woodserson]

The reason is that the Rott screws for the binding are longer than the riser is deep, and when screwed down tight the screw hits the ski and either breaks the topsheet or raises the entire assembly up off the ski. The shorter Voile screws, conversely, don't fit in the screw-head cups correctly on the Rott binding.

Interesting hypothesis, so I got the caliper out to have a closer look. On the Voilé 10mm riser the two rear binding holes have a depth of 10.12mm (left hole), 10.20mm (right hole) and the front hole, as the front of the riser is higher, measures 12.36mm in depth. In the case of all three holes, an average of 10 measurements was taken. The screws supplied with the Rottefella Super Telemark, when placed in the holes and held firmly in place, protrude 10.56 (left hole) and 10.20 (right hole). Again, an average of 10 measurements was taken and I didn’t bother with the front hole, as the riser is more than deep enough at that point. The Rottefella-supplied screws have an overall (outside measurements) length of 13.70mm. You are therefore correct to point out that the Rottefella screws are longer than the depth of the Voilé 10mm riser, albeit not by much (0.45mm).

However, the depth of the riser and the length of the Rottefella screws and whether they will “bottom out” is not the critical point. Critical is the mis-alignment, which is why I would not mount that riser on my ski.

The reason the 10mm Traverse Voile Riser Ball-of-Foot pad is slightly forward and misaligns the Rott binding to the Voile pad, is I think, intentional, and to prevent you from using the 10mm riser with Rott bindings.

The difference of location of the ball-of-foot pad between the two risers is beyond chance, I think, and Voile did this on purpose to discourage using Rott bindings on the Traverse 10mm riser specifically.

I beg to differ with you on this. The attached photo is of the little card included in the 10mm riser package. It states quite clearly. “Accepts all 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces”. As there aren’t a myriad of 3-hole telemark binding toe-pieces on the market, it is reasonable to assume that the Rottefella Super Telemark/75mm Cable bindings are covered by the “accepts all”.

Voilé 5A.JPG

It's not a hypothesis because I actually did it and it visibly raises the the riser off the ski.

Also, there is a long tradition of taking the 10mm Voile Riser to the tablesaw and sawing off 5mm of the BoF pad so the holes line up correctly. Which many have done to accomodate the Rott ST, and, as I have done. The holes are not misaligned when a portion of the pad is removed.

I agree with the photo, and maybe it is not intentional after all.

[Woodserson]

Also, in correspondence with Voile, they recommend one gets 3 times to insert/removal screws on their plastic risers, being sure to have the screw follow the old threads by backing the screw into the threads (hear a clunk, then drive down).

So don't be poking screws in and out for fun. It's metal into plastic, there's only so much to go around.

[Jurassien]

Also, there is a long tradition of taking the 10mm Voile Riser to the tablesaw and sawing off 5mm of the BoF pad so the holes line up correctly. Which many have done to accomodate the Rott ST, and, as I have done.

Has the “long tradition” modification been discussed previously on this forum? I’ve done a search and could find nothing about it. The forum appears to have been in existence since December 2013, so if “many” have done this I’m surprised to find no mention of it.

The holes are not misaligned when a portion of the pad is removed.

I flipped the 10mm riser over and placed it on a table, bottom side up. The 3 holes still didn’t align with the Super Telemark – so it apparently has nothing to do with the ball-of-foot pad.