Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Like getting out at night using just natural light,
even in the back country?
Got any photos to share?
Yes, I pack a headlamp and extra batteries.

Safety Disclaimer: besides essentials like extra types of layers and backup light source with low-light setting (low, red, green, ...), consider socks, gloves/mitts liners/shells, anything for cold (Zippo handwarmer, thermos, closed-cell rump pad, etc.), for navigation (map+compass, GPS, 'braille' orienteering knowledge, etc.), eye protection, reflective gear/clothing, and a plan if it turns to whiteout conditions or gear failure so you can get back safe or last the night.


Sometimes trail is easier felt with skis and poles (your other senses) than seen by eye.
Other times there are obvious cues like this tree corridor.
Obligatory Gear Shot: Snow baskets zip-tied on extendable BD FL Z-poles and Fischer 109st Americas or something with Bla<c>k Diamond cables.
A wrap of reflective tape covered by packing tape makes it easier to spot a dropped or cached pole, and for others to spot you on trail or road (e.g. passing cars). White shines farthest, red best snow contrast, yellow in between.
Sign post in the dark. TIP: to preserve night vision, grab some snow, pack it in fist, and smear it across sign. It'll fill the recesses making the letters pop, though I didn't do it here.
One of many little wooden bridges crossing the creek, a very narrow one at that.
Had a nice longish traverse tracing a drifted over track before descending back to the creek basin and lower TH.

Trail system on USFS land between I-70 and development. The free county bus runs from 7am-11pm roughly so you can get dropped off by the upper trail heads (red squares on left) then ski down to the lower trail head (red square right), and take it back up. There are bus stops at the upper ones and near the bottom one with ones in between -- public transport ski lift!

It's not just the camera, but different lighting affects what your eyes see and can see (cones vs rods).

If it's snowing at all, any light gets diffused by it making no light easier to see with (see photos below).
If you want to see far, go with natural light.
High detail within 20' or so headlamp.
Detail and distance, long camera exposure and a (mini) tripod, or rest atop ski pole or sturdy branch or post in a pinch.
Pack a small foam butt pad, extra dry gloves and layers, and a thermos and have fun!

Comparison

With camera flash. If snowing, it shows flakes and direction well, but scatters light for anything far.
No flash but with headlamp on flood, low (versus spot or high).
Little blurry because of my hand or melted snow on lens.
Natural light photo. If I rubbed packed snow on it (not done here), you'd be able to read it better than the arrows.
Play with camera settings, as well as F-stop, ISO, and exposure time if you can.



Some of the skyline glow is from passing headlights, usually semis or plows by the sound, on the interstate over the ridge.

Don't forget safety glasses if you're in the woods.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Don't forget safety glasses if you're in the woods.

Good point.

I bought a new pair a week ago… got home, opened the pack.. bifocals. LOL

So took another trip to the store..,

I snap a pic every time I park to begin my predawn laps. this thread makes me think I will bring my phone one time and take pics of the trail.

Skiing under a full moon is exhilarating! Night but with light.

JohnSKepler wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:10 pm

Skiing under a full moon is exhilarating! Night but with light.

Yeah, that's when I do it -- full or waxing toward -- no desire to use a headlamp (but I suppose it's something else to try!).

This could be fun on those Fischers once the snow packs down in the Spring. I got about 8 deg of slope angle. YMMV

stilltryin wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:47 pm

JohnSKepler wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:10 pm

Skiing under a full moon is exhilarating! Night but with light.

Yeah, that's when I do it -- full or waxing toward -- no desire to use a headlamp (but I suppose it's something else to try!).

Headlamp just ruins your night vision and eliminates ALL shadows! Since the headlamp is basically co-located with your eyes, all the shadows it casts are also in line with your eyes so are hidden 'behind' any surface features. The result is that you have ZERO depth perception. The moon casts nice shadows and gives you plenty of depth. When I say "night but with light" I mean the light of the moon. You don't need anything else!

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Don't forget safety glasses if you're in the woods.

Yep (and edited that in [tip-o-hat]), not just for "branches and twigs in the dark" but also wind, if you've ever had your eyelashes freeze together. If it's windy/cold enough, then goggles.

My default "shades" are cheap HF for both UV and ANSI Z-87.1 eye protection. They come in clear, smoke/tinted*, and yellow for <$2/ea, so you no big lo$$ if you sit on them, they get scratched, or they get lost in powder or when doing a kayak roll.
* Though I've seen 'em w/ and w/o explicit UV-rating, my contacts are, as are some of my faceshields.

JohnSKepler wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:03 pm

Headlamp just ruins your night vision and eliminates ALL shadows! Since the headlamp is basically co-located with your eyes, all the shadows it casts are also in line with your eyes so are hidden 'behind' any surface features. The result is that you have ZERO depth perception. The moon casts nice shadows and gives you plenty of depth. When I say "night but with light" I mean the light of the moon. You don't need anything else!

Agree with most of that, though I've found a few work arounds:
- Red or Green LED lamp, my red setting is dimm-able and is just enough for some surface features without ruining night vision
- Mounting a lamp lower (waist, pole, shin, ...) or sometimes higher (A-frame), I've put the headlamp band through my pack belt before
- Letting your partner use their lamp and take the lead saves your batteries
- Bicycle lights with a rubber strap-hook can work on some poles like over the FL or screw adjuster, though potentially annoying during heavy pole-ing (i.e. not gliding downhill)

However, if it is a new moon, overcast and wooded (BTDT), you'll have neither moon- nor star-light and a lot of deep dark shadows that can hide things, and snow can spread the light around if there's no light to begin with, so a lamp does have a niche. Bright moonlight IS the bees knees though!