Alpina Alaska XP vs Alfa Vista advance, click-in issues

[Ira]

Hi community,

I love the XPLORE system, and I find that the Alpina Alaska XP in 40 fits my feet the best. However, that particular boot has some issues clicking into the XPLORE binding completely (especially the right side of the left boot), and sometimes disengages (but always within the first 10 kicks when it happens). This has happened even when I lifted and shook my foot just to make sure it was connected.

I have two pairs of skis -- Asnes Ingstad and S-bound 98, both with XPLORE bindings. This happens with both but more with the S-bound 98 ones (but I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the skis, but rather the bindings). (it happens 40-50% of the time with the Asnes and about 20-25% with the S-bound -- when using the Alpina Alaska XP boots).

Because of this issue, and to see if it's the boot, I ordered the Alfa Vista from REI (in 39 because Alfas are bigger). The good thing, that one has no problem clicking in to the bindings -- easy-click and stays clicked in. However, it's the wrong fit for my foot -- although it feels bigger than the Alaska XP, there's 2 spots that are very hard and protruding on the side back of each heel that are painful, and I got super-painful intense blisters in 5 minutes). The heels feel like they're triangles rather than rounded. Wondering if that's a break-in issue (for example, should I get tennis balls and put them in the heels of the boot to get the heel rounded out -- the shape of the heel is not round enough). It's REI, and I just got them a few weeks ago, so I can return them, but I love how quickly they click in and wondering if the blister-problem is solveable (this happened even when I put blister-protectors on my heel).

The Alpina Alaska is so comfortable that I put it on at home, and drive in it to where I ski, so wondering what is causing the click-in problem with that one and not the Alfa Vista.

I'm only looking to keep one set of boots.

Wondering:
1) Whether it could be a quality control issue and I just got one with a wonky left boot right pin (it seems that pin isn't as mobile).
2) Whether it's a combination of that, and a quality control issue on the binding that's attached to the S-bound 98 (since that binding is having more click-in problems than the one attached to the Asnes).
3) Whether the ski shop (which installed both) had an error in installing the Fischer S-bound 98 one (however, the part where the boot clicks in appears to be one piece, so that possibility seems least likely).

I'm still at the point where I can return/exchange the problematic part (for example, the boots if it's scenario one, or the bindings if it's scenario 2 -- although with scenario 2 that would mean uninstalling slightly defective bindings -- if they are -- and reinstalling replacements). Which brings me to another question -- does it hurt skis any to do that, if the bindings are just installed in the exact same place, and same exact type of bindings?

BTW, in general I love the XPLORE system. I never had enough control with NNNBC, so used 3-pin, and this system has at least as much control as 3-pin/75mm (no cable) but with the comfortable kick-and-glide of NNNBC.

Thanks!

[lilcliffy]

Hello Ira!
Great to hear from you again!

Sorry to hear about your performance issues with your current equipment.

Try to analyze and break down your situation-

At first reading it would seem like the Alaska XP is the primary common denominator- correct?

Are you having any binding issues with the Vista XP?
........
As far as fit issues with your Alfa boot-

I have the BC version of this boot (Guard BC)- I have had fit issues- including heel issues- since the beginning.
I have countless 100s of kms of BC skiing in the Guard and I can say that there is no breaking in that heel with that hard plastic cup. Humans with a wider, squarer, heel-achilles-ankle seem to have no problem with it.

The only way I can use the Guard BC is to fill that space with an ankle bootie- I use the Ezee-Fit:
https://www.ezeefitsports.com/
............
I am sorry to hear about your trouble with the Alaska XP- I hope it is a "lemon", as I am already growing very fond of mine!

I am certainly in no rush to be waay out in the northern wilderness with an Xplore system- not yet-
I am thrilled with the performance, but Xplore has not proven its reliability yet...

Let us know how you make out with this,
Gareth

[JohnSKepler]

@Ira , I had this problem initially with the Alaska XP in size 40. Over the last two months the problem has disappeared. I don’t know if the system ‘broke in’ or if I just got better at clicking in, but it’s not an issue anymore. It was more of an issue with the Alaska than the Alfa Free.

Two observations:
First, the flat bumper makes it easier to click in. The hard bumper makes it harder.
Second, a small side to side twist of the toe seems to have gone a long way to getting it seated.

Where I was tossing a ski after half a dozen steps, now it never happens. Also, I find Xplore, where I can visually align the pins, easier than NNNBC where I have to guess at the line-up.

@lilcliffy , have you been a cautious adopter of other new systems or is there something about Xplore that seems inherently less robust?

[lilcliffy]

@lilcliffy , have you been a cautious adopter of other new systems or is there something about Xplore that seems inherently less robust?

I would not say that I am cautious adopter per se- I tend to be an early adopter of technologies- assuming it has practical advantages.

Don't get me wrong here- I have only been out on Xplore a few times now- I am VERY impressed with the performance.

I am just thinking- practically- that both the spring-pin tech as well as the binding itself might be prone to failure- be it a result of freezing or something else.

I am thinking that the boot will twist out of the binding itself before it breaks under stress...I am kind of amazed that the boot stays in the binding with even the limited stress I have put it under so far!

Anyhoo- we shall see about the durabilit and reliability of the Xplore system!

[DG99]

Interesting stuff. Sounds like would be good to just return and switch out the Alaska boot. Since the Alfa doesn’t fit. Some other notes around sound like the Xplore soles are all the same design pieces made by Rotte, but some are more or less defective.

I’m keeping an eye on all this…. Been on 75 mm all this time, NNN-BC never quite grabbed me. But my XC rig is with the Fischer BCX 675 boot which is bendy in all directions so pretty limited what it can do. Just XC trails in the BC that are very nice condition. Would be nice, better stability but without going to really heavy leather or plastic boots. If the Xplore could do that, I dunno.

Spoiler!

Whats this do?

[Theme]

I've skied the Alaska Xp in 42 for some time this winter. Have mounted three pairs of Xplore.

I do find it quite hard to click the boot in. I can not tell if it has engaged both pins, and I end up kickikg the ski off when ai intentionally shake and kick the ski around. I find it hard to do that side to side twist to lock in the pins. Have found that rather tilting the boot forward and pressuring pins works most of the time, although this way I do many times find out that the ski was not connected and it pops off. But a relatively reliable way to tell if the binding is engaged fully.

My main concern with the binding currently is the step-in nature of the binding. In soft snow it is a bit tougher. Also, why did they not color code the pin slots, or make a wider V-shape to easier catch the pins in... without a visual, I still tend to fail about 3 times on average. Currently this does turn me away from just taking the skis off and walking a short steep section. The step in feature was supposed to help with this. And the boots are definitely very good to walk in.

Another thing I have experienced is, when taking the boots off the binding, the small cup is too small to bother aiming with a pole. You need to add considerable pressure to the lever to disengage the pins, and you do need to pull the boot up aswell. This is kinda hard when kneeling. Easiest to again, just push against the flexor to pop it out. If there is snow underneath the lever, that it tends to build up, you need to push a few times to shake it off and even then some more pressure is needed to release pins compared to no snow inbetween the ski and the lever

Small quirks of the binding I guess, and my aim may improve. But here in dark north, black ski sole on black binding with tiny pins turns out to be the most infuriating aspect of this binding to me. I do find that the Alaska, when I place it on the binding, I tend to miss the outer pin more often, due to the overall shape of the boot. I feel like I am placing my heel too far out on the ski when moving the outer pin in place

Time will tell, if there are other things to worry about. I actually mounted a pair of 280cm forest skis with the Xplore and standard screws to see how they hold up and if this binding could improve performance in this niche.

Don't forget, I did not mention the pros here, just the cons. Only clicked in one pair of too small Lundhags Abisku Xplore aswell, but not many times enough to tell a difference. When new, the front rubber part next to the pins does seem too wide to fit in, so it will probably shave down a bit in use.

[telerat]

One of the pins on my Alfa Skaget boots has a tiny bit stiction, while all others are very smooth. Stepping in work well, but I have tried lubing it without noticing much difference. There was problems with a few pins last year and Rottefella had free return and repair with short return time promised, but I haven't felt the need for that:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4883&p=49385#p49385
I'd look into warranty fixing of your Alaska XP.

I plan to take a round file to the grooves on my bindings mounted on nordic/touring skates to see if I can extend the grove through the steel insert around the holes and thus lessen the angle of the slots, and ease step-in. Stepping in takes a bit of force and isn't as easy on skates as they don't stay flat on the ice like skis on snow. This will also help guide the pins into the holes, but I'll see how it works before doing it on other pairs of bindings. If I take too much the pins won't stay seated securely either. Wiggling the boot a little bit to make sure the pins are securely engaged in the binding before going off works for me, but should have been unnecessary. I earlier started skiing to find that one ski came off on the first kick, but have avoided later.

I fully agree that the step-out button could have been made larger to ease hitting it with the pole; the current implementation looks more for design than utility. I find it easier easier to use the hand, other ski or boot than aiming the tip of my ski pole.

I still prefer Xplore over 75mm leathers and NNN, but hasn't tried NNN-BC and probably never will now.

[afeinland]

... although it feels bigger than the Alaska XP, there's 2 spots that are very hard and protruding on the side back of each heel that are painful ...

This sounds exactly like how my gf described the size 39 Vista Advance (39 only available in the Women's version). It is strange that the boot has so much heel pinch. She is currently using a size 40 Men's Vista Advance, which does not have the heel pinch issue (though it's too big so she is on the hunt for a better fitting boot - Alaska XP was not shaped right for her). I'm using a 42 Men's Vista Advance and also have no heel pinch. The boot is starting to feel broken in after a few outings and I'm very happy with it.


While we're on the topic of clicking in to the Xplore... I recently got a second pair of skis mounted with Xplore. My first pair is the SB98 and I can click in no problem, often first try. The second is a pair of Nansens, and the bindings are noticeably more difficult to click in. It would take me 10+ tries, and after the first ski session I noticed the tips of my boots were getting all chewed up around the pins. I measured with a pair of calipers and the Nansen Xplores are 1mm narrower between the pin sockets than the SB98 Xplore. I also noticed the screw covers (where it says Rottefella) look different on my Nansen Xplores.

After 4-5 outings on the Nansen, I can now click in nearly just as easily as on my SB98. I had emailed Rottefella about the 1mm difference and they said "The tolerance might be slightly different sometimes ... [but] They shouldn't be that difficult to fasten," and recommended contacting the shop that installed them or the NA Rotte dealer, if the problem persists. They also said the the Fischer Xplores have different screw covers than the Rottefella version. Interesting.