NNN-BC on narrow alpine skis

[tkarhu]

Hi,

I am planning to buy late 1990's or early 2000's alpine skis for rock skis. I would ski them with NNN-BC and Alfa Guards in rolling BC terrain. Many alpine skis from that era have somewhat narrow waists.

Which of the following skis would you choose? And, what do you think might be wrong with the skis? How much sidecut is absolutely too much for the Guards?

1) Völkl P40 SL, 163 cm, 102/63/89, 13 m radius
2) Völkl Carver XT, 191 cm, 98/65/87, 25 m radius
3) Salomon X-Scream Series 1999/2000, 180 cm, 106/68/96, 18 m radius

The Carver XT's are a few years older than the other skis, from 1996-1997 I guess. I believe the Carver XT's are a little softer than the X-Screams. I might like stiffer skis because I ski XCD with Gammes.

I do not know how much any of the skis weight. Yet I believe the SL's are lighter because they are shorter. I am 5'11" and 180 lbs. How much does ski weight matter with NNN-BC?

[Woodserson]

X screams
Gentler flex pattern
Next?

[Rodbelan]

In my mind, you should forget about SL skis... Have you ever have a pair in your hands? They weight a ton, they are full of metal (much needed for that purpose). I would go with early touring skis... I am skiing since many years à pair of K2 Sahale with 3 pins cables... I like it a lot...

[fisheater]

I would not recommend a stiff ski. I cannot ski my Volkl midfats from the late nineties Telemark, not really even with my T-4 boots. My Volkl’s were the gray all-mountain version, the popular ski at the ski school was the yellow carving version. So despite being on the “softer” version, I can’t properly bend those skis skiing two footed. I would also stay away from slalom skis of that era that rewarded pressuring the heel, with their unbalanced flex.
All you need to Telemark is a nice balanced flex, intermediate-advanced all mountain ski.
Alpine skiing transfers way more power to the ski, as does primarily one foot weighting of the ski.
You can always learn like I did by trying it. I had to learn that way. I was quite surprised when it didn’t work out like I planned.

[phoenix]

I agree with the three previous posts, each of them are valid observations and suggestions. I wouldn't want any of those three, even for a rock ski, and most especially not with NNN BC's. If you have to have one of them, Woodserson's recommendation is clear and concise.
" All you need to Telemark is a nice balanced flex, intermediate-advanced all mountain ski." Also true. Add that weight and width are key factors, and once again, remember that you're on NNN-BC, not full on tele.

"In my mind, you should forget about SL skis... Have you ever have a pair in your hands? They weight a ton, they are full of metal (much needed for that purpose). I would go with early touring skis... I am skiing since many years à pair of K2 Sahale with 3 pins cables... I like it a lot..." I'd go with Rod's approach myself, find a pair of cheap "older" tele or T-ish skis... which should still be a handful for NNN's.

[Stephen]

… I was quite surprised when it didn’t work out like I planned.

Man, don’t I know that one!

[tkarhu]

Thanks for all the answers! Great to get info from people who know better than me.

So all the three skis are too heavy for rolling terrain / BC. That makes sense.

The K2 Sahale looks good. I got the idea from Pinnah's BC touring ski list, where he actually lists some old alpine touring skis. I am just balancing with what I can find second hand. Åsnes Falketind Xplore would be great, too.

[Rodbelan]

Thanks for all the answers! Great to get info from people who know better than me.

So all the three skis are too heavy for rolling terrain / BC. That makes sense.

The K2 Sahale looks good. I got the idea from Pinnah's BC touring ski list, where he actually lists some old alpine touring skis. I am just balancing with what I can find second hand. Åsnes Falketind Xplore would be great, too.

Problem is: they are hard to find (Sahale). 5-7 years ago there was some NOS here and there. What you need is: lightweight, not too much sidecut (above 20m radius), not too fat (around 70mm waist) and a little alpine camber with a good base... If mine die one day, I'll search fo skimo skis...

[tkarhu]

X screams
Gentler flex pattern

Thanks Woodserson, maybe this confirms what I assumed: better skis are more important than correct numbers "on paper". Völkl XT would fit NNN-BC better by specs, but X-Scream better flex pattern and radius seem more important in practice.

I would not recommend a stiff ski. I cannot ski my Volkl midfats from the late nineties Telemark, not really even with my T-4 boots [...] So despite being on the “softer” version, I can’t properly bend those skis skiing two footed. I would also stay away from slalom skis of that era that rewarded pressuring the heel, with their unbalanced flex.
All you need to Telemark is a nice balanced flex, intermediate-advanced all mountain ski.

Thanks fisheater! A great summary. +1

" All you need to Telemark is a nice balanced flex, intermediate-advanced all mountain ski." Also true. Add that weight and width are key factors, and once again, remember that you're on NNN-BC, not full on tele.

Good addition +1

What you need is: lightweight, not too much sidecut (above 20m radius), not too fat (around 70mm waist) and a little alpine camber with a good base... If mine die one day, I'll search fo skimo skis...

Another great summary... Thanks +1

A downhill skier friend says alpine piste skis are 2 – 3.5 kg per ski without a binding. Current Fischer RC4 skis weight 2-2.1 kg per ski. With a NNN-BC magnum (250 g) binding that would make closer to 2.5 kg. My 200 cm Gammes are 1.3 kg per ski with a binding, and a K2 Sahale weights the same without a binding. I guess there needs to be a balance between a ski and a binding weight, too.

[wabene]

What @Rodbelan is suggesting here, above 20m radius around 70mm waist could describe my SB98'S. This is my first season on them and I really like em. Easy to turn compared to my M62'S. With the fishscales they are a little slow. This was hammered home yesterday in prime wax conditions, the M62'S gripped on the up and just flew on the down. Nothing like wax when it's right.
So I'm planning on getting a ski like this with a wax base and was considering the Rabb 68. What would be the advantages/disadvantages/differences between a Nordic inspired ski like the Rabb and something coming from the other end of the spectrum like the K2 Sahale?

Edit: I have some Rossi Bandit L's that fit this criteria and I've considered mounting them tele. I hesitate because they seem heavy and the camber is quite flat.

Edit: I guess why I think this is pertinent to the OP is what are the advantages of purposing a cheap alpine ski for light tele vs buying a ski with the same dimensions that is a Nordic touring ski like the Rabb.