Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I'd like to share some drills, tips and exercises that have been useful, when I have learned XCD telemark turns with Gammes. This is mainly a collection of tips from others. Could this be a place for discussion, too?

Gammes are fast skis, so speed control is necessary, when going downhill. You often skid the Gammes because it cuts down speed. Skidding also helps to make tighter turns with their 14 mm sidecut.

You can do the first drill at home on a carpet. I would learn most others in an open, moderate slope, with some powder, but not much more than a foot deep. When snow is hard, even a green piste might be too much for learning.


Drill 1: Telemark stance



In a telemark stance, you should feel pressure on shins of both legs, and the rear ski ball of foot.


Drill 2: Tele shuffle (tele dance)



In tele shuffle, you test the telemark stance and shift sides, while going downhill. It is a great drill even when you can already link turns because it helps to get rear ski pressuring right.

"If I could go back, I would have spent 10 hours on it instead of the maybe 10 minutes I put into it. I think it could have shaved 10 years off of my learning curve."
- lowangle al

Drill 3: Striding into a telemark

According to Paul Parker, telemark originated from a classic cross-country stride. The drawing below is from Parker's book.


Parker writes that in a telemark turn, you stride with your feet only. For this part, a telemark stride is different from XC skiing and walking strides. You don't swing your arms, but keep them relaxed in front of you.

1. Neutral position
2. Tele shuffle in direction fall line
3. Pressure the inner rear edge of your front ski until you start to turn.
4. Move weight evenly to both feet.
5. Neutral position / stop

Putting pressure on the inner rear edge of the front ski helps especially in powder.

"To make stiff cross country skis turn, you want to weight the heel of your front ski. That way the tail of the outside ski will skid toward the new direction you want to glide in. Once your outside ski is pointing where you want to go, move your inside ski alongside it, and weigh both skis evenly again."
- riel

Drill 4: Wedging into a telemark

Parker's other approach to learning tele is a wedge tele.


1. Wedge with your outer ski (half wedge).
2. Bring your inner ski (rear ski) and rear leg to a tele stance.

On hardpack, a wedge tele was easier to learn than a stride tele. The wedge cuts down speed at the moment, when you move through fall line.


Drill 5: Linking turns (garland)

At first, it is good to stop after each turn. Later on, you can start a new turn after each one ends. This was the third and last drill I practiced from Parker’s book.


- On an easier part of your slope, try linking some stride or wedge teles down the hill.
- Sink into a telemark position, while at the same time you steer the front foot, knee and ski.
- Steer your front foot more to make a tighter turn and slow down, steer less to speed up.
- On a gentle slope you will feel as though you are walking "pigeon-toed" from one tele to the next.


Drill 6. Edging & rear ski weighing



In a telemark turn, especially rear ski edging helps to turn. It helps to maintain control on hard snow.

"Concentrate on edging. Work the inside edge of your outside ski, and the outside edge of your inside ski."
- lowangle al

"Visualize your rear foot pinky (little toe) putting pressure on the outside edge."
- Johnny

"Get a feeling for the back ski and front ski edges, mainly how the back foot creates edging that helps the turn. The edges relate to your little toe on the back foot and big toe on the lead."
- oldschool

"Concentrate on rear foot weighting. Initiate with the lead foot, but make that rear foot control that turn."
- lowangle al

Note: Instructors speak about little toe. However, you should pressure a ball of foot.


Drill 7: Counterbalancing



This is an alpine video, but binding type does not matter much for upper body movements. Also in XCD, keep your look and chest facing downhill.

"Practice keeping your upper body facing downhill and quiet, without exaggerated movements."
– teledance

Drill 8. Weighting and unweighting



When you start to go a little faster, weighting and unweighting create rhythm and flow. Also in slower turns, weighting and unweighting are at work.

1. Unweighting
— Neutral position
— Legs are relaxed.
— Weight is on both skis.
— Skis are flat on snow.
— Ski tips point downhill.
2. Weighting
— Pressure the inner rear edge of the front ski.
— When you start to turn, pressure the rear ski outer edge with your ball of foot, while still edging the front ski, too.
3. Unweighting
— Neutral position
— Change lead ski & repeat.

"Keep moving vertically. When you get the the low point of your drop, start rising into the next phase."
- zonca

"If you want to squash the camber out of those Gammes to carve with the middle of your ski, you will need to do a lot of unweighting. Unweighting is important because it results in weighting."
- lowangle al

"Have both skis first equally unweighted during lead ski change. When you then move through a turn, have both skis weighted in a tele stance."
- Harris

"A tight turn means quick pressure build-up (diving in) and an abrupt release at the finish (explosive, against the forces). A long turn equals slow pressure build-up (sinking in) and an easy release of edges (patient, balanced turns)."
- Harris

Drill 9: center of balance



Balance is a dynamic thing here because situations change fast.

"As far as being centered, you are constantly moving to maintain it. When you have it you are stable, when you lose it you are not."
- lowangle al

"50/50 [front and rear ski weighting] is really what you should be looking for when doing tele turns. That's the idea behind seeing both skis as one big plank."
- Johnny

"It is having too much weight on one leg that burns muscles out. If you can keep your skis fairly equally weighted and maintain it throughout the day you will get a lot more mileage out of your legs. Then strength and fitness are less of an issue."
- lowangle al

Drill 10: Ice hockey stop



You can do a hockey stop either in a tele stance or in a parallel.

"Try always to stop with your weak turn, and to make it pretty and solid. We naturally stop with our strong side, working on the other helps immensely."
- teledance

"Hockey stop by turning parallel throwing ice to a stop. This skill allows anybody to zig across any face in control. Slide off, build some slow speed, turn into the fall line, and come to a stop."
- teleman

"With my lightest setup, things clicked when I could do a hockey stop and feel the ball of the foot pushing. From there I could alter how much pressure to put depending on the turn."
- montrealer

Drill 11: Parallel turns



A parallel turn may be easier to do than a tele in narrow places, on hard snow and at higher speeds.

A stem turn, also known as a wedge christie, is an easier version of a parallel turn. You start the wedge christie like in a wedge tele, but then move on to a parallel turn. Alternatively, you can start a parallel turn with a step.

There is a point when snow gets hard enough that I switch to parallel turns. Telemark is a soft snow turn. One problem for a beginner is to know when NOT to try tele turns.
– lowangle al

"I have enjoyed skiing hardpack with my Gammes more than overly soft stuff. On hard stuff, you can really catapult out of turns [with parallel turns]."
– mikael.oh

Note: In the above video, skier is on Gammes and NNN-BC Fischer Transnordic boots. As Stephen said, "attire is optional". So are wedge and step starts... I guess you need good unweighting for a full parallel.


Accessories

I have used light blue wax (Rex) for XCD at all temperatures. Even in crud, the blue has worked alright. Remains of old wax have often been enough because I have skied XCD only after snowfalls. Newly fallen snow is sticky, so you find grip easily. Also, when you go downhill, stuck snow wears out.

Besides the blue wax, 30 mm mohair x-skins have worked, too. In faster snow, the x-skins cut down speed, and help with climbing. Yet I have used my x-skins only once in ~15 XCD sessions. Some skins may make tele turns unpredictable, but the 30 mm mohairs have felt like wax.

I would suggest matching NNN-BC flexors to boot stiffness. If you have stiff boots, a stiff red flexor may make your boots work like XC boots do. The red flexors help especially in XCD on hard snow.

With a too soft flexor, only the flexor gives in, when you lift a heel. Then your boot mostly pivots around the binding metal bar, like an alpine touring boot. When a flexor and a boot flex similarly, it is easier to make the boot sole bend, and to pressure the ball of foot.

Picked up the red flexors this year, and they are a quick and easy upgrade for downhill control. I wouldn't say they add power so much as help encourage/remind you to keep the ball of the foot down. Don't love the feel for kick and glide, and steeper skinning can be uncomfortable.
- John_XCD

When I had my Ingstad's set up for NNN-BC I used the reds. They worked really nice for turns, and were snappy on climbs. That being said, this was consolidated snow use only, I did not use them in fresh deep snow for climbing (but downhill yes, much fun), so no experience there. But otherwise, snappy kick up, nice control down.
- Woodserson

More?

Feel free to share below! Different points of view and tips are welcome. Especially when something is wrong above, comments and corrections will be helpful. I would apprecciate some new drills, too.

@tkarhu, thanks for putting that together — I’m sure that took some work.
There is plenty of useful information for anyone looking to learn or improve technique.

I @tkarhu You sure picked a heck of a ski to learn to Telemark on, but you also have a very solid idea of the technique you are trying to learn and emulate based upon the material you have put together in this excellent post.
I still can’t think of a much harder way to learn the Telemark turn, however I acknowledge the engineering is absolutely marvelous and I am still learning the capabilities of this ski. Once you achieve your goal, can I dissuade you from attempting to duplicate Scott Smchidt’s moves in Chamonix. Yes, I’m old, and I still believe I have a “License to Thrill”, but that was Glen Plake.
I would encourage you to try something easy like bull riding instead!
Excellent post, best wishes on your journey. Always remember, we are just kids sliding on snow. Don’t take yourself too seriously, and always enjoy the joy, whether it’s absolutely ripping the line, or totally f’ing up and ending up like a human snowball!

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:22 pm

You sure picked a heck of a ski to learn to Telemark on [...] I acknowledge the engineering is absolutely marvelous

Yes! Gamme sidecut and tip even look a lot different from real old school Karhu XCD GT's. But I guess Gamme's rocker might make more difference.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:22 pm

Once you achieve your goal, can I dissuade you from attempting to duplicate Scott Smchidt’s moves in Chamonix. Yes, I’m old, and I still believe I have a “License to Thrill”, but that was Glen Plake.
I would encourage you to try something easy like bull riding instead!

Wow, the Scot Schmidt and Glen Plake videos are amazing! But I guess I will stick to my 10-15 degrees slopes for now Their skiing looks weightless.

fisheater wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:22 pm

Excellent post, best wishes on your journey. Always remember, we are just kids sliding on snow. Don’t take yourself too seriously

Thanks! All good to you too

Just want to say excellent post and thanks for consolidating all that info.

@tkarhu
This is fantastic- thank you for taking the time to put this together!
Please consider re-posting (or having it moved to this to the "telewiki" section of the site)!
Excellence.

New adventures with Gammes today! We have had minus degrees (Celcius!) last week, and 17 cm of new snow. I did some XCD on a 10-15' slope. The snow felt quite heavy.

It was the first time I felt I leaned in turns. I guess that is called inclination. I went slightly faster, which probably helped to do that. Gps tracker says today's speeds were 16-19 km/h. Earlier my leather boots have had 15 km/h speed limit.

I also started to experiment with slightly longer radius turns. I had been afraid of the wider turns because I thought speeds would rise above my comfort zone. However, speeds stayed quite the same in the longer radius and tighter turns today. The wider turns meant six turns per 100 m, and tighter turns ten. This was a ~14' slope gradient. Now the tight turns feel like extra work.

After the XCD, I skied XC back home on groomed tracks. Some say that Gammes do not fit into tracks. They do feel a littly slower there than a pure XC ski, but not very much. However, today's heavy new snow felt slow, and I had short glide on it.

Thanks @lilcliffy and @mca80 for the nice feedback earlier Great if I can also give something for all that I have got here.

One funny thing, I had thought side sliding would be impossible with Gammes. By contrast, in PSIA telemark education skill progression, side sliding (”a side slip”) is listed as the first thing to do (link below).

Krummholz wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:39 pm

Found this searching for psia telemark….
https://tinyurl.com/TelemarkTasks2018

(Quote is from thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5685 by @TallGrass)

EDIT: With the Gammes, trying to start a side slide from standing still has felt like the ski tips and tails would cut into snow, like a spring would be suspended. I also ski single camber Åsnes V12 telemark skis. With the V12’s, I have been able to side slip immediately. I also call the technique a side slide here, rather than a side slip, because Gammes do slip laterally there — yet they slip with sudden starts and stops. The most easy technique could easily become a slip, fall and break your bones type of slip with Gammes

Yet today, I was able to make a smooth side slide from standing still with my Gammes for the first time! I was starting downhill from a short steep section of 20-25 degrees gradient. There I could get the Gammes to side slide smoothly. Really not a first place to practice with your double camber skis!

Finding this an interesting read. I haven’t had an opportunity to take Gamme to a more groomed downhill setting but fully intend to. I’ve put XP bindings on the Green Man and have really enjoyed getting to know this new combination. I’m going to say that control and turns with the XP is quite enjoyable on the forestry roads I spend a lot of time on. Also finding that zipping down single track trails with fresh snow more controllable (and thinking I’d better start wearing a helmet for this situation).

@Inspiredcapers Nice to hear from you. The Xplore bindings sound great. I just hesitate to upgrade from NNN-BC, when I have just invested the money and time needed to find a pair of boots that fit. What boots do you ride Xplore with? Which NNN-BC boots did you have?

I just bought Alfa Guards in one size smaller, 43 (NNN-BC). I had bought them oversize in 44, when my feet were in between the Alfa sizes. Oversizing made sense to me because my main BC use case used to be one-week ski expeditions. There you possibly camp in -10’ to -25’ C, and I would prefer same boots all day, plus warm feet.

Then I started to do XCD last winter, and also the 44 Guard boots had started to feel a bit loose, when they had broken in. Moreover, the Guards feel even too warm for my feet in the 0 — -10’ C temperatures, where I most often ski. Luckily I found an almost unused pair of size 43 second hand for half the price of new ones. The seller had also bought them one size too big

For me, the 43 soles bend at a better point than the 44’s. They ”pivot” where my ball of foot flexes, too.

I skied the 43’s for the first time today, actually on something much like a groomed piste. It was a hill, where school groups go with pulks. Basically the kids had groomed the snow with their pulks after we had got maybe 3 inches of powder lately. However, I was out with my Åsnes V12’s because snow reports looked like might hit rocks. Steepness was something like a green slope.

I mostly focused on rear ski pressuring on the pulk groomed snow. That helped with edging. For the first time, rear leg movement felt like ”dropping a knee”. I have the red NNN-BC flexors, and I could lean into the resistance of the flexor and a boot sole, when ”dropping the knee”. This seemed to add some pressure besides my usual ball of foot pressing. I could feel how the boot sole was resisting, but gave in somewhat.

The snugger boots also enabled some rear ski steering. My rear ski wanted to go straight, when my front ski had already started turning. I opened my rear leg knee slightly outward at hip joint.

With my 172 cm V12’s, it feels easier to make a tight parallel turn than with my 200 cm Gammes. This helps with the V12’s, when you need to do a ”panic turn” on hard snow.

On the other hand, it feels that with the V12 sidecut (93-62-85) it is sometimes difficult to get an edge to bite. I have started to lean in turns with the plentier sidecut to find and edge. Does anybody have better tips?

Yet as a benefit, it feels that I have transferred this technique of leaning / inclination also to skiing with Gammes. When I skied the Gammes last week on a slightly steeper slope, stronger inclination probably helped me to go a bit faster (20-25 km/h).