Ditching 75mm plasticboots for XPlore only - valid thought, idea?

[fledersau]

I'm thinking about ditching my 75mm hardboot setup and just gonna be XPloring for all my needs...

Atm i have a Scarpa T2 Eco, AXL setup on a Salomon MTN Explore Ski (88mm width, 185cm length) which i use for resort skiing and touring
And i have a Ingstad Waxless (195 cm length) with XPlore and a Rossi XP12 boot.

I'm really liking my Ingstad setup, i use it for XCd and xcD. Obviously my 75mm setup is much more capable and i didn't found the limits of the XPlore system.

Generally i don't like plastic boots, they always are too ridig, my feet hurt... even after a bootfitting and i even had once a custom liner... But on my XP 12 or almost any BC XC boot i tried in my live, i was really fine!

A few weeks ago i was inbound skiing and at the end of my day thought i'd do a lift run with my BCXC setup, just to do a longer downhill and try some tele turns on a green slope. Even though i was much slower, i had alot of fun and went for 2 more runs and it made me thinking, why i'm keeping my Tele setup and not take my BCxc skills to the next level. (yes, those telehiro videos on youtube are a bad influence)

Especially i think about getting a Rabb68 (or Falketind XPlore, 180cm or maybe 188cm), which i have a good deal atm. but to finance them i'd have to sell my Tele setup.

Has anybody tried East Coast touring with skintracks and forest powder descents on a setups that compares to mine? Somebody has experience on a "modern" Tele hardboot setup and on a oldschool leatherboot setup in similar downhill conditions? What are your thoughts on differences in downhill performance with a Rabb/Falketind with XPlore vs 22AXl, T2Eco and Salomon MTN explore

i'm 5'10 and 190lbs a very good alpine skier, a good BC XCer and a 2 winter into in plasticboot telemarking

[CwmRaider]

Short answer: whether you will be happy depends on your mindset.

I ditched my heavy tele setup about 4 years ago. I go to ski lift runs quite rarely though. I keep a single alpine pair for when ill need to learn my kid how to ski.
I have been running a range of xcd setups, the most capable having been FT62 2nd gen. with Scarpa T4 and Rottefella ST cable bindings. The T4 didn't work well for my feet and i sold the FT62 as I downsized my equipment stash to focus more on fewer skis.

Now i have Xplore with Alfa Free and either Otto Sverdrup or Combat Nato skis.
While i am impressed with the way it works, the setup feels less capable than the T4+RST. How much less is not so clear to me yet. The skis are less carvy than FT62 obviously but otherwise I think the boot itself is the biggest difference, although the Alfa Free is very good and you can power skis into turns kind of like with a plastic boot. Also the Free is much kinder to my feet.
I am happy with my decisions but i avoid steep descents in difficult snow. With xcd on groomed slopes i can keep up with slower friends on heavy alpine or tele gear.
Telehiro is an excellent skier, and most of his videos are on good snow.
If you can accept that xcd gear is a compromise and consider the challenge of improving your skills to be the goal instead of the steeper slopes, deeper snow and faster speed, and you can be happy.

[DG99]

Local snow conditions and your goals for sure.

In our deep and terrible snows around here, I’ve gone wider and wider. I distinctly remember finding 70 mm waist and 84 mm waist not wide enough. Like one day all suddenly realizing. For wide skis I want plastic boots. My alpine skis are 107 mm mid! I used to have tele skis at 112 but I guess that was finally overkill. OTOH sometimes I want those again….
I have skinny skis but it’s for trail skiing. That said, sometimes I’m breaking trail. But anyways more a mileage thing than a descent thing.

[Lo-Fi]

...I'm thinking about ditching my 75mm hardboot setup and just gonna be XPloring for all my needs...
Somebody has experience on a "modern" Tele hardboot setup and on a oldschool leatherboot setup in similar downhill conditions?...

What kind of skiing is most attractive to you?

It is cool to get turns and handle challenging terrain on skinny skis and light duty boots, but if you are really pursuing the turn itself then the light duty stuff is not often the best answer. That said, I actually think you could try something else for your 75mm gear too.

These gifs aren't super clear but I hope they illustrate the point.

Madshus Panorama M68/ Epoch/ Karhu 10th Mountain with Alpina Alaska NNN-BC. Longer, tight-rope balance turns:

Madshus Panorama M78 / Annum / Karhu Guide with Garmont Excursion boots. Shorter, faster, very stable turns:

Altai Kom skis (98mm waist) with Garmont Excursions. Super floaty, fast planing, easy pivoting, effortless turning:

A ski like the Kom/Vector/V6 and Excursion/T3/4 boot is an almost magical combination to get turns almost anywhere, anytime, even in marginal snow. This type of gear just has an easier entry floor and higher ceiling.

[lowangle al]

You've got some good advice above.

As long as you accept you will go slower at the resort on light gear, I don't see any problem with that. As long as conditions aren't bullet proof ice and are easily carvable, the light gear could be fun.

OTOH, I think you will find the limitations of the light gear in the back country, because of conditions.

I think you will miss your heavier gear more in the bc and will have less fun in variable bc conditions. You can be fine on the consistent conditions at the resort but in the bc you will have MORE FUN, MORE OF THE TIME in the bc on heavier gear.

[JohnSKepler]

My dream would be to ski exclusively, given appropriate conditions, on FT62 with Xplore and Alfa Free. Clearly the FT62 is not really going to ski bottomless powder or heavy moguls, but I like to think everything else would be accessible if done a bit slower. That said, I'm nowhere near that and just acquired a heavy tele set up. We'll see how that goes.

I've been experimenting with the stiff Xplore flexor and it does a really good job of pinning your forefoot to the ski and improving control, but it really limits kick and glide. I've also found it can cause the nose of the trailing ski to dive in deeper powder but, I assume, conditions are on the edge of what the FT62 is designed for at that point.

I do find myself wanting a medium flexor - something in between the standard (which I think is very soft, almost unnoticeably soft) and the stiff flexor, which doesn't seem to actually flex at all, rather, it transfers the flex to the boot, which is it's job. We really need some kind of... spring, up there, the preload of which could be adjusted without removing the plate, ideally, with a tumb or better, pole. Like the Switchback.

I do know that @Tom M has mounted Xplore on Voile Objective and skis that with the Alfa Free boot, which is much like the setup you (@fledersau) seem to be targeting. I'm almost wishing I'd gone that route other than the heavy tele route, but I think I'm going to need the heavy rig to push the boundaries which is really the only way to learn. And I sometimes like to ski with friends and family with life goals other than learning to free-heel ski. Losers.

[Nitram Tocrut]

Especially i think about getting a Rabb68 (or Falketind XPlore, 180cm or maybe 188cm), which i have a good deal atm. but to finance them i'd have to sell my Tele setup.

From my experience with previous generations of Rabb and FT I would suggest you go with the new gen Rabb if you want to focus on dh. @lilcliffy already has some hands-on experience with the new Rabb/Xplore set up and i know from very reliable source that he loves that combination. Hopefully he will soon share with us his usual in depth thoughts/review

Back to my own experience, I find the Rabb way more stable dh than the FT62... but that is only my opinion. There was a lot of discussion in the Asnes thread and Crister, who used to work for Asnes, gave us a concise comparaison of both skis :

The new Rabb 68 will still be "softer" underfoot than the Falketind 62, but both of them will get a higher and longer flex curve, a bit more of camber, and a bit higher/longer pocket.
The Rabb 68 will still be more "downhill oriented" than the Falketind 62, so it's still more of a hybrid compromise between a Nordic BC ski and a full-on AT ski. The good news is that both of the skis will be more playful, better on harder conditions, and get a tiny bit better in terms of XC performance.

Falketind 62 Xplore is the ski you choose for the longer outings, while still not scarifying too much on the descent. Rabb 68 on the other hand, is the ski you choose to get more stability, playfulness, and downhill capabilities without it being at the expense of too much stride, glide, and low weight. If that makes sense?`

I short words, go for the Falketind if you plan to travel in various terrain and do longer approaches. Or, choose the Rabb 68 if you do more deep snow or want to earn your turns in a more Alpine Touring kind of way.

J'espère que ça peut t'aider

[JB TELE]

I started learning tele last year on plastic boots, I tried both NTN and 75mm plastic. I got to the point where I could make a basic stopping turn but couldn't link turns. This year I decided that my feet can't handle plastic and I went full leather. My first ski day of the year was at a resort on groomed fresh powder with a dusting on top. I instantly was at the same skill (or lack of skill) level. If anything, it felt easier than plastic boots. Then I tried skiing at a resort when the snow had been baked, refrozen, and groomed a bunch since the last storm. Chalkboard snow. That was rough skiing, especially on chopped refrozen stuff. Maybe I needed something stiffer and more narrow than my s-bound 98s.

Either way, I enjoy resort skiing in my leather boots. I get some weird looks from the lift operators. But it needs to be decent soft snow conditions or else I would rather go touring.

[Rodbelan]

I did both at the resort: leather and plastics (from Excursion to T1). I would never ditch plastic. This is a seducing idea, but not very pragmatic...

BTW, Telehiro skis everything (3p, Xplore, NTN, R8, etc, etc...). And every skis, from the skinnier to the fatter (he never goes really, really fat tough). He chooses the conditions when he wants to be on lighter gear.

The freer and the lighter you will be, the tougher it is going to be on your technique. But there is a limit: nordic skis and leather boots won't make you into a carving machine... you'll need to be way more polite... Plus, on 3 pins, you will need a riser to ski at the resort if you do not want to boot out at the end of the turn... Not sure about Xplore binding (that could also be the case).

Look at the instructional vids from NATO: the older ones are almost exclusively shot in the spring, on corn... much easier to ski that way on light gear...

You could check for a light plastic boot; if you are not a Scarpa fit, you could go with Garmont/Scott Excursion... I like them a lot!

Read again Al, Gus and Martin recommandations...

[fledersau]

WOW! Thanks everybody for your opinions, experiences and insights, that helps me to clear my head.

I'm not the biggest resort skier, the only reason i go to resorts is to improve my downhill technique to feel better on backcountry, and to have a few days of skiing with friends. But if it would be me, i'd just be shallow angle, backcountry skiing here in Québec.
We don't have "real" mountains here (sorry, a little snobbery from a guy from the alps) and while i like backcountry touring in switzerland (long ascent to the summit in the morning, great view and a shared glass of wine on top and long downhill) i'm a little less exited for the 200m-300m d+ loops we do here and i found carrying the heavy equipment a little over the top. And skiing wise, the trees are often so tight, i'm not used to that so it's hard to get a good freeride speed with a heavy setup in the tight trees for me. But again, i alway have a nice day out with my friends when touring or resort skiing.
On the other hand, after every XCd and xcD day, i feel much more satisfied with my performance, less painfull and i have the impression that i used the right tool for the job!
So it will be the question, if i want to continue to go out skiing with my friends, or use the right tool, or in the end, if my friends are patient enough in the descents to wait for the xcD-guy who takes the long way down...

@Rodbelan Thanks, Yes i saw that telehiro has a big setup, but especially his 75mm leather and XPlore skiing appeals to me. I already tried skiing on a Excursion on a Superstinx with targas in powder and a few weeks ago i tried a t4. the comfort and ease of walking was bigger than on my t2ecos, but i don't think light enough and rigid enough, even compared to my XP12's.
You mention a riser on three pin not to boot out at the end of the turn. with "boot out" you mean to fall on the back when "leaning" into the back of the boot? i had that problem back when i tried the Excursion, but never since, even not with my XP12, but that may be my technique that got better since...

@Nitram Tocrut Thanks for the Asnes quote, wouldn't have found that myself! Yes, i'm looking a little more direction Rabb, because of the dh performance and the floating surface and turning radius. And to have a little more "distance" to my Ingstad.

@JohnSKepler Speed in leasure-sport is only necessary, when it brings more joy. A slow descent takes longer so i hav more "funtime"...
I agree with the stiff flexor, it's great for dh but not that fun for walking. I don't know if i'd need a middle plate, with the standard one, small descends work well for me and on a long downhill, i'd always want the stiffer one.

@Lo-Fi Thanks for your insights and your gifs! I already saw some videos of you on youtube before finding the telemarktalk forum... Your skiing spots look alot like mine (exept those outaouais-style hilly meadows that are hard to find around here). You're a great skier and i think a good person to show the maximum potencial of each setup... and my oh my, the Altai Koms look surfy and so much fun. have you ever tried a Asnes Rabb or Falkentind?